Talk:Suharto

New definition of Fascism

In a recent article, an author uses a definition of fascism developed by the writer and retired businessman, Laurence Britt. To develop his theory, Britt compared the regimes of Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Salazar, George Papadopoulos and Suharto, all of which he deemed fascist. Can we now accept this new definition and change this article to reflect its findings? Please discuss at WP:RSN#Proud Boys. Note that while the source is used to label the Proud Boys as fascist, it could also be used as a source for other articles if it is deemed reliable. TFD (talk) 23:30, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Killings?

I have read elsewhere that Suharto was responsible for literally millions of deaths of Indonesian people.

But I cannot find that fact mentioned anywhere in this article.

Why? 2601:200:C000:1A0:494:DE11:8C09:9B16 (talk) 15:47, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Please provide verifcation from a reliable source. Peaceray (talk) 19:49, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

I am no expert, but 30 seconds of googling led to many websites, like this one:

https://gsp.yale.edu/case-studies/indonesia 2601:200:C000:1A0:494:DE11:8C09:9B16 (talk) 20:51, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

It is true that he did that, I think it's mentioned in the article. Khalif Ali Husain the Third (talk) 03:05, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

The article has improved since you made this comment, but the primary reason Suharto’s mass killings are rarely discussed in the West is quite simple, I suspect: complicity.

In my own nation, Australia, our bipartisan complicity in the mass murder of Indonesians leftists is little-known, and Suharto has many admirers in the Murdoch press. Foxmilder (talk) 09:03, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Australian here. I thought that Sukarno initiated the anti communist purges which caused many many deaths. There is a wiki page on this. But Suharto was involved too. He became dictator a couple of after they started. NomicsGrrl (talk) 11:05, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Portrait

Why do people keep changing his portrait with 1998 one?

If you are doing this, please stop, and reach consensus here in the talk page first.

Khalif Ali Husain the Third (talk) 08:08, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

The 1998 portrait is simply more suitable; it shows what he looked like in the majority of news broadcasts and books etc. from when his regime first came to light. Also, most other political figures generally have their portraits from their last term or even after their terms ended, for example Margaret Thatcher or Barack Obama. Surely the same applies here? Mordhau (talk) 14:04, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

infobox honourific titles

a wikipedia editor had removed his title of General on the top of the infobox stating that it doesn't fit with wikipedia's standards, yet we can see it on infoboxes belonging to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._Eisenhower https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Min_Aung_Hlaing , why is it a different case here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mordhau (talk • contribs) 16:54, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

I also objected the removal of honorifics in the infobox. In Indonesian Wikipedia his name, in both the main article and infobox, is written as "Jenderal Besar (Purnawirawan) Haji Muhammad Soeharto" ("Jenderal Besar (Purn.) H. M. Soeharto"), which Suharto adopted after his largely-publicized Hajj pilgrimage in 1993 (the Jenderal Besar part was adopted in 1997). Therefore, I'm adding the honorifics back to his infobox until this Talk topic is finalized; afterall, Sudirman and Suharto ally Abdul Haris Nasution still have their Jenderal Besar (General of the Army) honorifics written in their English Wikipedia articles' infoboxes. Gibranalnn (talk) 06:50, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

@Gibranalnn: According to MOS:POSTNOM, Post-nominals should only be mentioned at relevant places ..., in an infobox parameter for post-nominals. In this case, it is mentioned in the |Honorific prefix= parameter in the infobox. However, MOS:POSTNOM also states When the subject of an article has received honours or appointments issued either by the subject's state of citizenship or residence, which indicates that only General of the Army can be included, as (Purnawirawan), Haji and Muhammad are neither honours nor appointments issued in Indonesia. Ckfasdf (talk) 09:18, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

@Ckfasdf: Perhaps, we could add "General of the Army (Ret.)" to the infobox, much like the "Prabowo Subianto" article (his former son-in-law, also a politician and a retired military officer). As for "Hajji," I never see any infoboxes about notable Muslims that ever included this honorific. RyanW1995 (talk) 07:32, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I have no objection to including "General of the Army" in the infobox, as it align with MOS:POSTNOM as previously mentioned. However, since he attained that rank long after retiring from the army, I don't think it's necessary to include "(Ret.)" in the infobox. Ckfasdf (talk) 04:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Ckfasdf: In my opinion, the honorific "Retired (Ret.)" is the English translation of the Indonesian honorific "Purnawirawan (Purn.)." I saw in the Indonesian Wikipedia, Suharto's military honorific is "Jenderal Besar TNI (Purn.)." Therefore, if we want to include this honorific in this article, it would be "General of the Army (Ret.)." RyanW1995 (talk) 05:27, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

I am fully aware that "Retired = Purnawirawan" and we dont really need to follow what's on idwiki. Ckfasdf (talk) 07:31, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

@Ckfasdf: I think we could follow your opinion about Suharto's honorific. RyanW1995 (talk) 06:27, 29 June 2024 (UTC)