Talk:Northern California

WikiProject Rating

Definitely not a "stub," I believe it means at least the B quality, and is at the upper end of that range. NorCalHistory 05:53, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Citations for Description Section

Do things like "Popularly, though, "Northern California" usually refers to the state's northernmost 48 counties." need in-line citations and if so does anyone have them? --Squishes (talk • contribs) 17:29, 21 July 2014‎ (UTC)

No Cal at 36 degrees 30 min

No. CA starts at Carmel city, 36 degrees 30 minutes N. Not at 35 degrees. Where is the reference for that? This is arbitrary, all the years I lived in CA I never heard of it. Politically sure you would have to include all of Monterey County and west. A straight line. Not physically, try it. I'm sure So Californians would not like this distinction blurred, either. At least Wiki does not loop No. CA around the Central Valley or try to include Santa Barbara as the central coast.

Who deleted my post? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.129.164.98 (talk) 22:21, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Northstate

@Brycehughes: I was essentially reverting the previous edit, in which “The Northstate” was completely removed. Since there is a long-standing redirect (Northstate), and since that is what I’ve heard myself (I know, that doesn’t really count), I reinstated it without the definite article. I’m not sure where I would look for a source — my access is limited. — Gorthian (talk) 21:34, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

All good, thanks for the ping. Let's take my edit as a bold remove as opposed to a revert. I did a quick, non-thorough google earlier and all I came up with was urban dictionary. Happy to have it in there if it's applicable, but there is the issue that it doesn't seem to apply to Northern California as a whole, rather just it's northern counties. Perhaps it could go in a subsection. Brycehughes (talk) 05:44, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

@Brycehughes: I surprised myself and actually found something to use as a reference. I added it into the Description section. I didn’t add it to the lead, though, because “Northstate” encompasses a smaller area than this article’s definition of Northern California. — Gorthian (talk) 22:20, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Cool, thanks for that. Brycehughes (talk) 01:23, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

The latitude of California's north-south division

California extends 10 degrees in latitude, from San Ysidro in the south at 32 degrees north latitude to the Oregon border, which is at 42 degrees north latitude. The midpoint should be 37 degrees, not 39 degrees because the average of 32 and 42 is 37. Also, San Francisco is 37 degrees north latitude. Goodell (talk) 05:55, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Ah, got it. Fair enough. Brycehughes (talk) 06:33, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Central California

When did Central California become part of Northern California? Central California has it's on page just as Southern California does. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gibsontune (talk • contribs) 17:27, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes, it’s inaccurate to say that all of Central California is part of Northern California—it isn’t. There is some overlap between these two regions, especially near Merced, Stanislaus and San Benito counties, but it’s fuzzy at best, and that’s part of the challenge of determining the boundaries of regions like these in Wikipedia. To say that Central California is a subregion of Northern California would therefore imply that cities like Bakersfield, Santa Maria and San Luis Obispo (which match the Central California definition to varying degrees) are in Northern California, which is factually inaccurate. Pf1127 (talk) 07:30, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

In 1859 there was a proposal to form two states instead of one, with the border between them set at the Tehachapi Mountains. That proposal would have put all of Central Valley into the northern state. The split did not happen but the idea remained, that most obvious split between north and south was the curving Tehachapi range. Another Tehachapi split was proposed a century later, in 1965. What's obvious when dividing the state at the Tehachapis is that the northern portion is a lot bigger, containing most of central California, however that's defined.

An 1868 statute put Northern California as everything north of San Luis Obispo County's northern border,[1] which was a few miles farther north at the time (county borders have shifted around historically.[2]) For the purpose of implementing uniform prices on wine, the 1868 statute set a Northern California trading area, a Southern California trading area, and a Mountain trading area defined by high elevation. Central California was not mentioned, but most of the central portion of the state was in the Northern trading area. Binksternet (talk) 08:59, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

The Bay Area isn't Northern California.

I hate to break it to you all, but NorCal is everything from Sacramento and North. The whole landscape changes, there are no major cities, and the culture changes. We don't want to have the bay area idiots lumped into our great part of the state, thanks. 2601:200:4400:74B0:980B:F470:82FF:2033 (talk) 19:48, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

YES. ALSO SACRAMENTO IS ALSO NOT NORCAL AND NEITHER IS ANY PART OF THE CENTRAL VALLEY. 47.208.4.74 (talk) 07:46, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

When people divide California into TWO PIECES then the Bay Area and Sacramento are certainly in the northern piece. Binksternet (talk) 14:48, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Adding to what @Binksternet already said — San Francisco, San José, and Gilroy are specifically named by the state as part of the Northern California section of its High-Speed Rail System.

• California, State of (2024-08-20). "Northern California". California High Speed Rail. Retrieved 2025-01-09.

FelisObscura (talk) 23:32, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

"Popularly"

There's no cite for the claim that Popularly, though, "Northern California" usually refers to the state's northernmost 48 counties.

And it's pretty implausible. Tulare, Kings, Inyo, Fresno counties? I don't think those are "popularly" taken to be NorCal. They're Central or Eastern California, not Northern. (The Bay Area is a separate discussion — it's true that it's very distinct from the far north of the state, but on the other hand it's what a lot of people specifically mean when they say Northern California. Sacramento, or at least its burbs, feel more like Central California than either definition of Northern despite the high latitude, but again we can save that for later.)

We shouldn't be promulgating this uncited and I think inaccurate claim about the "popular" meaning. --Trovatore (talk) 19:28, 30 December 2023 (UTC) My personal boundaries would be something like "draw a line from Big Sur to Mono Lake and take everything north of that line, but then cut out the Central Valley south of Sacramento". I'm not proposing that should go in the article, but I do think it's more plausible than what's there currently. --Trovatore (talk) 22:29, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

See previous discussion at Talk:Southern_California#The_dividing_line_near_the_36th_parallel.

The nearly straight combination of county lines cutting across California at roughly latitude 35°45'N is the popular division. It's a neat division, easy to see and understand. On the other hand, the geographic division goes from Point Conception at the Pacific through the Transverse Ranges including Tejon Summit and Tehachapi Summit, following all the highest points of the mountain ranges, cutting northeast at Tehachapi to hit Nevada around Mount Patterson north of Mono Lake. That line is curvy and complex, more difficult for folks to wrap their head around, but useful for historic travel difficulties back before highways, and as a biological study boundary where the weather changes drastically.

The US Department of the Interior in 1987 set latitude 35°47'N as the border between north and south California.[3] That's where the counties of San Luis Obispo and Monterey meet, and where the not-quite-straight east–west county line starts. A career journalist named Mike McPhate writes about this line in his blog.[4] The county of San Luis Obispo is commonly included in popular travel guides of SoCal, while Montery is not.[5][6] Many more examples can be found putting the western point at the Monterey–San Luis Obispo county boundary. The rest of that straight line was set in 1859 as the Pico Act.[7] You can blame Andrés Pico. Binksternet (talk) 00:44, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

With either version, it sounds like you want to put the whole Central Valley in NorCal. No no no. Sorry. That is not the "popular" definition, whatever you might find in the Interior Dept literature. (San Luis Obispo vs Monterey is about right, but you can't just draw the line straight east -- it needs to angle north and cut off most if not all of the Central Valley.) --Trovatore (talk) 04:08, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

Can you point to supporting publications for the angle north boundary? Because your description does not fit with the bill that was passed by a majority of Californians in 1859 when they decided to split California into two parts, using a perfectly straight east–west line set at six standard parallels south of Mount Diablo. Binksternet (talk) 19:58, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

I hope you can see the difference between "there's an act from 1859" and "this is the popular usage". Saying that Fresno is "popularly" considered part of NorCal is pretty out there. --Trovatore (talk) 21:27, 10 January 2025 (UTC)