Talk:Reign of Terror

Confused framing and narrative

This reads like a coherently written article that has had major chunks haphazardly stripped out and replaced with sloppy attempts to control narrative. After reading the entire article, I wound up completely confused as to what the reign of terror is actually referring to, and what Robespierre's role was in any of it. Starting at the beginning, we have:

• There is disagreement among historians over when exactly "the Terror" began. Some consider it to have begun only in 1793
• Others, however, cite the earlier time of the September Massacres in 1792, or even July 1789
• The term "Terror" being used to describe the period was introduced by the Thermidorian Reaction who took power after the fall of Maximilien Robespierre in July 1794, to discredit Robespierre and justify their actions.
• Today there is consensus amongst historians that the exceptional revolutionary measures continued after the death of Robespierre, and this subsequent period is now called the "White Terror".
• The "Date" listed in the Part of the French Revolution" box at the top right is: 1793–1794

Okay, so the reign of terror began in 1789, 1792, or 1793, and continued after Robespierre's death in 1794, though it was also "introduced by" the Thermidorian Reaction who took power after that time. No wait, it means the word "terror" was applied only by the "Thermidorian Reaction" (apparently an entity?), to discredit the prior period under Robespierre? Okay okay, so the French revolution was 1789 to some time after 1794, and one phase during Robespierre's life is "The Reign of Terror," and after Robespierre dies it becomes "White Terror," the first name being coined by "the Thermidorian Reaction," the latter name being coined by a consensus amongst modern historians. Did I get that right? Maybe this next section "Terror as the order of the day" will clarify things:

• What Robespierre calls "terror" is the fear that the justice of exception shall inspire the enemies of the Republic.
• He opposes the idea of terror as the order of the day, defending instead "justice" as the order of the day.
• In February 1794 in a speech he explains why this "terror" is necessary as a form of exceptional justice in the context of the revolutionary government

Huh? I thought the word "terror" had only been assigned after Robespierre died. Now I'm told Robespierre both opposed terror (meaning fear of justice), but also defended terror (meaning exceptional justice) as necessary during his revolutionary time. What are we even talking about, who is Robespierre?!

• Some historians argue that such terror was a necessary reaction to the circumstances.
• Others suggest there were additional causes, including ideological and emotional.

Gee, did Robespierre's headless corpse reach through the grave to edit this article? Pretty big red flag that a history article is written so defensively of someone's actions. And since the article doesn't specify what those actions actually were, I'm left to speculate. What would have instead been helpful, is any explanation of who Maximilien Robespierre was, and more broadly, what the Reign of Terror was. I mean I see one reference to "Maximilian rule," and one image description notes he was actually on the Committee of Public Safety, which seems to have played a role in the administration of the Reign of Terror, whatever that was. And I think the committee guillotined Robespierre? The article is never explicit. Guess they had a falling out--sounds like a pretty fascinating time! Maybe someday I'll learn about it. PS, I looked at the article one thousand versions ago, and it contained a proper introduction full of expository information entirely absent from the current version. Imho, all the preemptive historiography/revisionism, which I'm not disputing, should be in a separate section or article, save for a brief mention here or there maybe. It certainly should not be replacing the actual historical information the uninformed reader would come to this article to read. 128.12.88.50 (talk) 23:20, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

I agree, I just read this after reading several books on the French Revolution; this Wikipedia article stinks of revisionism and politics rather than sounding like an encyclopaedia entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.39.8.70 (talk) 12:05, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Citation - links don't link to the quoted text

In the version I'm looking at (today, now), the following text is quoted, along with the introductory text:

[begin quoted text]

In February 1794 in a speech he explains why this "terror" was necessary as a form of exceptional justice in the context of the revolutionary government:

If the basis of popular government in peacetime is virtue, the basis of popular government during a revolution is both virtue and terror; virtue, without which terror is baneful; terror, without which virtue is powerless. Terror is nothing more than speedy, severe and inflexible justice; it is thus an emanation of virtue; it is less a principle in itself, than a consequence of the general principle of democracy, applied to the most pressing needs of the patrie [homeland, fatherland].

[end quoted text]

Two links are given - numbered [11] and [7]; both links work. But neither linked-to text contains the above text.

First link is Halsall, Paul (1997). "Maximilien Robespierre: On the Principles of Political Morality, February 1794". Fordham University. Retrieved 5 March 2016.

Second link is http://www.historytoday.com/marisa-linton/robespierre-and-terror LeoHesting (talk) 05:53, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

"Reign of Terror" or "The Terror"

First things first: the obligatory Ngrams is about what I expected. "Reign of Terror" is, of course, an anglicism. Some have shown interest in maybe changing it, though I'm not convinced. Remsense ‥ 论 04:06, 23 December 2024 (UTC)