Talk:Jōseki

Stub?

Is this still considered a stub? The information seems to be relevant to the specific topic. bojo 21:17, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

diagrams

the diagram in the basic joseki section of the article (full board position) is very hard to read because the white stones lack contrast against the background. Please try [sgf2misc] to see examples of diagrams with good contrast between the white stones and the board. Funkyj 01:48, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Shogi link is not relevant to this article

In the external links there's a link to "Internet Shogi Joseki in Japanese". I'm removing it. Linking from this Go-specific article to a page in Japanese about Shogi (Japanese chess) openings makes as little sense as linking to a page about Western chess openings. Shogi is a type of chess and is an entirely different game from Go.--216.165.122.183 (talk) 01:19, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

yes this seems to have been added in combination with a spam link.--ZincBelief (talk) 13:47, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, in shogi, we call openings "joseki" as well, although it's spelled differently (定跡 as opposed to 定石). I think at least a mention of its use in shogi would be useful. 68.191.84.156 (talk) 20:04, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's the same word just with different character spellings. Recalls of examples like adviser vs advisor in English. – ishwar (speak) 18:10, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External Links

What should we have in the external links section? A topical question given the BruGo fiasco. There are a lot of free online dictionaries and a lot of real paper dictionaries and commercial electronic dictionaries available. If I want to read more about joseki I do not know if one of these would be my first port of call. I would wager something like 38 basic joseki would be a good book to begin with - if not some other book like fundamental principles of Go.

Perhaps just a link to http://senseis.xmp.net/?Joseki would suffice. Sensei's Library lists other joseki references there, and SL is used in several other places as the an external link to provide lists of a certain resource. (eg: Internet Go server, Go software) HermanHiddema (talk) 15:13, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

B.Vdb.: I agree if we are trying to minimize the amount of external links, then certainly Sensei's Library Joseki page is probably most appropriate. On the other hand, there aren't really THAT much websites about this topic, so maybe we should maximize? References to books (such as 38 basic joseki) sounds a bit commercial to me and also it does not give information immediately as you should still go buy the book. As for more detailed pages like Avalanche_joseki and Taisha_joseki, I would expect these are pages visitted by more advanced players who are looking for more than just an introduction. So, there I would add links to more advanced websites such as BruGo's Joseki dictionary, maybe Kogo's Joseki dictionary, ... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.177.242.93 (talk) 22:27, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well there are actually a lot of free and non free sources of information on these joseki lines and joseki lines in general. If we put in 1 external link we could put in 10 external links. It is not really important whether the link is commercial or not commercial. To be honest I would opt for just Senseis Library for all of those pages.--ZincBelief (talk) 11:07, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

B.Vdb.: I always regarded wikipedia as fast/free information. So from that point of view I would avoid commercial sources. As for free sources, I really can't think of much more than 5 truely 100% non-commercial websites. Of sources which have pages about taisha and avalanche certainly not. And even if there were more than 5, that's a problem for later. We can still reconcider later. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.177.227.139 (talk) 00:10, 19 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In general, wikipedia policy is to try to minimize external links. External links should be those that are necessary more than those that are nice to have. In that context, I think that for this general article about joseki, an external link to Sensei's Library's Joseki article is the best way to go. As that article lists BruGo and other joseki dictionaries. One of the nice features of BruGo, IMO, is the fact that you can link directly to a specific joseki. That is not something you can do with, eg, Kogo's joseki dictionary, or with a book, etc. So I think that specific links to specific joseki can have a place in those specific articles. So on the Taisha joseki page, a link to BruGo's taisha joseki would be a good external link, because it allows the reader to explore variations, something he cannot do at wikipedia. HermanHiddema (talk) 09:37, 19 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

B.Vdb.: I can certainly live with that. Sorry for asking, (I don't know the wiki etiquette, but) how do these kind of discussions usually come to an end? We seem to agree on the Joseki page itself (only an SL link that is), so that page can be updated, right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.241.221.95 (talk) 23:35, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Corner areas alone

I believe joseki is a balanced sequence of moves in any small-scale situation? 90.212.241.163 (talk) 12:09, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, no - the article is correct that joseki refer to corners alone. Your own ref supports this too. Notice in your ref that there's a diagram entitled Reference Diagram. That shows that all 8 joseki (a to h) start in the corner of the board. I've added a reference to the article, too. --Trafford09 (talk) 00:15, 27 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My mistake. Cheers! 90.212.241.163 (talk) 00:27, 27 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Judo tradition?

I know that the founder of Judo, Dr. Jigoro Kano, used some of what he'd learned from the game Go as he was developing judo. Now I just read in the USA Judo protocol for bowing at the opening of a competition that if there is no picture of Dr. Kano and "no Joseki," then there is "no need to bow to Joseki." (Caps & italics in original quote.) This is official protocol from the American governing body of judo. Does anyone know the meaning of this use of Joseki? Thanks! Dcs002 (talk) 05:36, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Follow-up: I just learned that the "joseki" (lowercase "j") in judo seems to refer to the "Timekeeper/Jury Table" (caps in original). However, there is something they refer to as a true "Joseki" (always capitalized), which all contestants and officials must bow to, if one is present. Dcs002 (talk) 06:08, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Jōseki vs Joseki

I believe it would be better to use "joseki" throughout the article as that is how it is spelled in most English speaking settings. Of course, we would still show the proper romanization at the top.

This is in line with the style guidance: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Japan-related_articles#English_words_of_Japanese_origin 2601:647:5E00:84E0:CDE8:54E3:3ECA:6F21 (talk) 15:48, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]