The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.
Ku Klux Klan is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject African diaspora, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of African diaspora on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.African diasporaWikipedia:WikiProject African diasporaTemplate:WikiProject African diasporaAfrican diaspora articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anthropology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Anthropology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AnthropologyWikipedia:WikiProject AnthropologyTemplate:WikiProject AnthropologyAnthropology articles
Ku Klux Klan is within the scope of WikiProject Catholicism, an attempt to better organize and improve the quality of information in articles related to the Catholic Church. For more information, visit the project page.CatholicismWikipedia:WikiProject CatholicismTemplate:WikiProject CatholicismCatholicism articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Civil Rights Movement, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Civil Rights Movement on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Civil Rights MovementWikipedia:WikiProject Civil Rights MovementTemplate:WikiProject Civil Rights MovementCivil Rights Movement articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Discrimination, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Discrimination on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DiscriminationWikipedia:WikiProject DiscriminationTemplate:WikiProject DiscriminationDiscrimination articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Indiana Historical Society, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Indiana Historical Society-related articles and topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Indiana Historical SocietyWikipedia:GLAM/Indiana Historical SocietyTemplate:WikiProject Indiana Historical SocietyIndiana Historical Society articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jewish history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Jewish history on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Jewish historyWikipedia:WikiProject Jewish historyTemplate:WikiProject Jewish historyJewish history-related articles
This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBTQ-related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBTQ+ studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesLGBTQ+ studies articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Organizations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Organizations on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.OrganizationsWikipedia:WikiProject OrganizationsTemplate:WikiProject Organizationsorganization articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Secret Societies, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.Secret SocietiesWikipedia:WikiProject Secret SocietiesTemplate:WikiProject Secret SocietiesSecret Societies articles
Ku Klux Klan is within the scope of WikiProject Tennessee, an open collaborative effort to coordinate work for and sustain comprehensive coverage of Tennessee and related subjects in the Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, and even become a member. [Project Articles] • [Project Page] • [Project Talk] • [Assessment] • [Template Usage]TennesseeWikipedia:WikiProject TennesseeTemplate:WikiProject TennesseeTennessee articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
@Darknipples this Wikipedia article says "the KKK or the Klan, is the name of several historical and current American white supremacist, far-right terrorist organizations and hate groups." right after, this article says "the klan is America's first terrorist group". The article says this before explaining the kkk started as one group, so the reader might get confused if the first paragraph says the kkk is multiple groups, then describes it as just one without explaining that the historian was talking about the first klan only. @Knitsey reverted my edit where i said the historian was just talking about the first klan, because she said various sources describe the klan as one group, and she admitted she didn't read other citations, citations that describe the klan as different groups which are cited later in this article. I just made my edit, so the reader won't get confused with inconsistency from the first paragraph. this shouldn't even need to be brought to talk page, if a paragraph in an article is not consistent or confusing, it should be changed, and this shouldn't be a long-drawn-out discussion like most talk page incidents I've been a part of. I'm extremely busy tomorrow so if this conversation lasts longer than 6-7 hours, I'm out. HumansRightsIsCool (talk) 22:58, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@HumansRightsIsCool I understand your concern and I assume good faith that you believe your changes are consistent with Wikipedia policies and guidelines, but this normally requires a consensus by editors that agree on how best to apply them. There is not a 6-7 hour time limit and consensus can change. I will take a closer look. DN (talk) 23:30, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
if you're busy too, why do you wanna waste hours of your time discussing something in an article, going against a tiny change that makes a lot of sense. doesn't seem like your busy. my son turns 17 years old tomorrow, i also got to go to work, i gotta do a whole bunch of things, but you're against time limits on discussions. seems like you got all the time in the universe. HumansRightsIsCool (talk) 01:52, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Best wishes to your son. We all have things going on in our lives, and like you, we’re all volunteers. You aren’t entitled to demand that other editors accommodate you. The encyclopedia will still be here when you have some free time. Acroterion(talk)02:08, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Acroterion is right. This article isn't going anywhere. Just like my college professor told me...over....and over... DN (talk) 03:40, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
HumansRightsIsCool, I was referring to the 4 citations after the sentence you changed. Of those 4 citations, 3 I was able to find on jstor, the fourth I couldn't find to enable me to read it. The citations pertinent to the sentence you wanted to change, describe it adequately.
I don't think your additions add anything and I don't find the lede confusing.
If you don't have time to discuss changes, then in future, after the first revert (to the lede) please consider not making further changes, as it wastes the time of other editors if you're not willing to discuss the edits. Knitsey (talk) 12:11, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. I think the part that may have been confusing was that there were different iterations throughout time, as opposed to multiple different "group(s)". DN (talk) 19:15, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Darknipples if thats true, change the first sentence which says the "the KKK or the Klan, is the name of several historical and current American white supremacist, far-right terrorist organizations and hate groups." HumansRightsIsCool (talk) 17:21, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Knitsey first off, how am I wasting the time of other editors. I didn't know this would be brought to talk page and you guys are the ones who want to discuss. Second off, if your only going to read three citions, if it doesn't matter what other citions later in the article say, If your going to remove my edit that describes the KKK as different groups, I guess you have to change the very first sentence of the article which is "the KKK or the Klan, is the name of several historical and current American white supremacist, far-right terrorist organizations and hate groups." Because that sentence I just copied and pasted describes the KKK as multiple groups too, so why are you reverting my edit that removes that the KKK is just one group, because it's inconsistent with the rest of the article. and, just because you don't find the first paragraph confusing, doesn't mean other people won't. My edit made the first paragraph consistent, now it's not, which could confuse people for a second. And articles should be of the highest quality. Tell me why my edit doesn't make sense? Just because you don't find it confusing? Think about the reader. HumansRightsIsCool (talk) 17:19, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It bothers me that the new opening is factually untrue. The Klan is not one organization. This is not up for debate. Either the original opening must be restored or you can undertake some effort to reformat the entire thing to fit your gripes. Here's what I propose:
Besides that, stating that it's a terrorist group only to say "historians say" again in the second sentence is redundancy. Is it a terrorist group or not? I also don't see how this "Fergus Bordewich" guy is notable enough to be specifically mentioned above all other historians.
Think of it like this: If someone says they want to "stick it to The Man", they're not talking about one specific guy. They're talking about an imagined figure of authority. When people say "The Klan", it is as if they are one group (as they share basic beliefs) but in reality, they are different groups from different time periods that just happen to use the same name. Patriot of Canuckistan (talk) 22:07, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Patriot of Canuckistan all of the sources I've read linked to this article describe the klan as one group with different iterations. If you can find a reliable source that calls the klan "multiple groups with similar ideologies", you can add it to the article, and make sure to remove the sentence about Fergus bordewich if you do that, because he describes the klan as one group, and this article needs to be consistent. HumansRightsIsCool (talk) 22:41, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia is not a source in itself, it was written by editors like us. In trying to resolve this issue, reliably sourced citations often referred to the KKK in "waves", "incarnations" or "iterations". There did not seem to be an explicit consensus among citations stating they are mutually exclusive. For example, see David Cunningham (sociologist)'s comments in the article below.
"The Klan's following has tended to rise and fall in cycles often referred to as "waves." The original KKK incarnation was largely halted following federal legislation targeting Klan-perpetrated violence in the early 1870s. The Klan's second -- and largest -- wave peaked in the 1920s, with KKK membership numbering in the millions. Following the second-wave Klan's dissolution in the early 1940s, self-identified KKK groups also built sizable followings during the 1960s, in reaction to the rising Civil Rights Movement. Various incarnations have continued to mobilize since -- often through blended affiliations with neo-Nazi, neo-Confederate, and Christian Identity organizations -- but in small numbers and without significant impact on mainstream politics. Between the group's periods of peak influence -- say, during the 1880s, or in the 1940s, or the 1980s -- the Klan's fortunes have always appeared moribund. But in each case, some "reborn" version of the KKK has managed to rebound and survive." PBS
Yes, "the Klan" was widespread and certainly evolved over time. Each KKK "organization" or cell had to adapt to it's location and time period, which explains diversity over time and place. Sources do refer to "groups", so it's understandably confusing, but the implication that they were "unrelated" was not apparent AFAICT, and so it appeared to come across as WP:SYNTH. If after discussion, consensus does not seem possible, perhaps an WP:RFC may be prudent in resolving this issue. Cheers. DN (talk) 02:03, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I had never heard of the "Duke Flag" until I saw it used at the top of the infobox in the article. The most recognizable symbol of the KKK is the Blood Drop Cross by itself. The Duke flag looks as if someone took the flag of Peru and slapped that symbol on to it.
“Extremist” would be more accurate than “far-right.” The KKK began as an organization of Southern Democrats after the Civil War; for the group’s political coloration through the early 20th century, see https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/cambridge-guide-to-african-american-history/ku-klux-klan-kkk/AF98C32F011BFB6DBD98879DE0F08C73, which notes, “In the 1868 elections, alongside Knights of the White Camellia, they murdered 1,000 black and white Republicans in Louisiana alone. […]
Between 1877 and 1910 the KKK fueled Democrats’ push to establish one-party rule and Jim Crow.” While members of both parties have been supported by or even affiliated with the group, historically the association with Democrats has been stronger; for instance, Wikipedia’s own article on “Ku Klux Klan members in United States politics” lists ten US Senators in this company, seven of them Democrats (Ku Klux Klan members in United States politics). At the 1924 Democratic National Convention, “The Klan endorsed William Gibbs McAdoo, the frontrunner for the nomination. Senator Oscar Underwood of Alabama and Governor Al Smith of New York both called upon the party to repudiate the Klan by name in the platform. This motion failed by four votes” (https://www1.assumption.edu/ahc/1920s/Eugenics/Klan.html), although Underwood and Smith were able, after considerable maneuvering, to block McAdoo’s nomination and eventually to include the repudiation in the party platform. As an illustration of one prominent Democratic politician who got his start via the Klan, longtime US Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV) joined the KKK in his youth to further his political career and advanced to the rank of Exalted Cyclops, recruiting some 150 new members (https://www.newsweek.com/did-joe-biden-attend-kkk-leader-funeral-ted-cruz-fact-check-1823670). While Byrd later repented of these actions and sought to distance himself from them, it is telling that by his own account, he believed that active Klan work would be a good path to political success in the heavily Democratic West Virginia of the 1940s. By no stretch of the imagination can figures such as Byrd, Justice Hugo Black, and various other stalwarts of the Democratic Party be described as “far-right.” HezekiahLee (talk) 16:00, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This topic has been brought up many many times. There really should be an FAQ on this at the top, though I'm not sure how effective that would be. As has been said, "we go by what reliable sources in academic political science tells us, not our own analysis." DN (talk) 20:22, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Klan did not formally exist from Reconstruction until it was re-established in 1915. The Klan backed Republicans where there was a Republican majority (see Owen Brewster in Maine, for example) and Democrats where there was a Democratic majority. Nothing you've stated disputes the Klan being considered far-right. Does an organization which murders 1,000 people in a single year to prevent black voting rights sound otherwise to you?--User:Namiba
Cite error: There are <ref group=lower-alpha> tags or {{efn}} templates on this page, but the references will not show without a {{reflist|group=lower-alpha}} template or {{notelist}} template (see the help page).
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
,_early_1900s,_Central_Africa,_Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo,_Pende_people,_wood,_fiber_-_Cleveland_Museum_of_Art_-_DSC08700.JPG){kind=small}
