Talk:Panther tank

The article reproduces a common error

The article states that the tank was influenced by the sloped armour of the T34 which it is alleged provided superior protection. This is simply untrue: The mass of a plate and the thickness of it (in a given orientation) covering a given area is unaffected by it's slope. In other words it's true that if you angle a plate to some orientation, it becomes thicker, but you will need more plate to cover the same area, ending up with the exact same weight-to-thickness ratio. Now an angle might help deflect a shell, but that effect is insignificant for high velocity shells (they melt/'dig in' at any angle) which were the dominant AT weapons of the time. (Think why an Leopard II a4 got straight plates at it's frontal turret) ~~. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:7660:289A:0:319B:6167:915F:9FA2 (talk) 22:18, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Please read Sloped Armor DynCoder (talk) 22:20, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Proposal to make the intro less segmented?

In my opinion, the segmented look that this article's intro has doesn't look too good and also doesn't really have any flow to it. For example, here is the start of the intro

The Panther tank, officially Panzerkampfwagen V Panther (abbreviated PzKpfw V) with ordnance inventory designation: Sd.Kfz. 171, is a German medium tank of World War II. It was used on the Eastern and Western Fronts from mid-1943 to the end of the war in May 1945.

On 27 February 1944 it was redesignated to just PzKpfw Panther, as Hitler ordered that the Roman numeral "V" be deleted.^{[citation needed]} In contemporary English-language reports it is sometimes referred to as the "Mark V".

I propose we get rid of the spaces and male it look like this (with an edit or 2 to help flow and readability)

The Panther tank, officially Panzerkampfwagen V Panther (abbreviated PzKpfw V) with ordnance inventory designation: Sd.Kfz. 171, is a German World War II Medium Tank that was used on the Eastern and Western Fronts from mid-1943 to the end of the war in May 1945. On 27 February 1944, it was redesignated to PzKpfw Panther, as Hitler ordered that the Roman numeral "V" be deleted.^{[citation needed]} In contemporary English-language reports it is sometimes referred to as the "Mark V"

In my (relatively uninformed and wildly amateur historian mind) this looks and reads better Redrhuadri (talk) 10:50, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Proposal to add a short section about spotting differences between different models (Ausführungen) of Panther tank - A, D and G

Hi everybody,

Having removed today from image's caption in WP:Infobox the part about Model D being recognisable by drum-shaped commander's cupola and "letterbox" machine gun slot in the hull (because not only Ausf. A had them, as can be confirmed here: => https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/germany/panzer-v_panther.php; but those features appear to have been present also in Ausf. G, as can be seen in the following image below in Wikimedia):

That got me thinking that it might be a good idea to add a short section about easy-to-recognise differences between models.

And it seems that the only such reliable feature was the "chin" on gun mantlet in Ausf. G - there is no easy way to differentiate between Model A and Model D... 🙄

Does anybody have any objections to my adding such a section?

Cheers, 15:12, 29 July 2024 (UTC) Szagory (talk) 15:12, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Letter box type hull machine gun port, with cover

The source you provide suggests it's not easy to tell the difference because various visible changes spanned versions.

"It can be difficult to identify the Ausfuehrung version of a Panzer V Panther tank without knowing its Fahrgestell-Nummer (Fgst.Nr.) chassis number... " https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/germany/panzer-v_panther.php#index18

Also, I don't think your image above shows the "letterbox" type machine gun port, which had a simple cover, your picture shows ball mounts. Strangely, the left tank in your image also has the driver vision port in the front hull, which was normally on earier models. (Hohum ^@) 19:15, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

That driver vision port on the opposite site of the MG port was still featured in Ausf. A, just the MG ball mount was introduced in late Nov/early Dec 43 according to Panzer Tracts 5-2 Denniss (talk) 21:12, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Great to have this discussion started and find people interested in it. 😎

As you both (Denniss and Hohum) clearly know what you're talking about and are obviously much more knowledgeable on the subject than me, can I appeal to either one of you to go ahead and add such a section to the article? One can see how this topic could be confusing, what with various changes spanning various models of Panther (A, D and G; presumably no need to bring Ausf. F into the discussion here).😉

Or does it really boil down to this: with early-design vs. later-production differences for each model, the only reliable recognition feature is the anti-ricochet "chin" on gun mantlet in Ausf. G and there is no easy way to differentiate between Model A and Model D? In which case I could add that brief summary to "Development and production" section of the article... Those two images in side-by-side comparison are available in Wikimedia separately (as there might be some objection to Gothic script of the lettering in it being perceivably pro-Nazi):

And presumably there would be no objections to citing that webpage (=> https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/germany/panzer-v_panther.php#index18) as reliable source, right? 🙄

So I'm waiting for a verdict from you two,

Szagory (talk) 08:51, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I think the solution to the question is a single line of text noting when the change is introduced in production rather than a section. GraemeLeggett (talk) 11:46, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Reliability table

Where can I find it?

I want to add this source:

And I would like to copy that table to Panzer IV reliability section as well.

Thank you! Szolnok95 (talk) 20:46, 14 December 2024 (UTC)