Talk:Hardial Bains

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This article was nominated for deletion on 3 October 2011 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

Restoring deleted paragraph

I don't have a good feeling about this edit, in which Mista-X deleted:

Bains' personal politics became the driving force behind the CPC-ML, its ideological trajectory following his own: in the 1960s and 1970s, he and the party were Maoist; in 1978, following Mao's 1976 death, Bains became a supporter of the views of Enver Hoxha (an admirer of Stalin) and the Albanian Party of Labour.

with the rationale:

POV about Bains ppl can see part history for this info and come to own conclusions

Almost no readers will go through the history to find relevant information that might have been erased. You aren't contesting the accuracy of the information; if there's more information that would put it in context, please do add.

Since its deletion leaves the article with immensely less information about Bains' political progression – a pretty important in a biography of a political figure :) – I'm going to restore it to the main article now. If you feel it misrepresents anything, please add to or tweak it, or discuss it here? Thanks. Samaritan 10:28, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Party History

The whole reason I edited that Paragraph was because it is POV. If people want party history, they can look at the entry for Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Leninist) and come to their own conclusions.

This paragraph is ment only to suggest that CPC-ML is a cult and the members followed Bains every move like sheep. If you want to add a paragraph about Bains ideological changes, that's fine. But you have to back up your claims. If you want to talk about the party's ideological changes, put that in the entry of the party. But don't assume that the party's ideology changed because Bains woke up one morning and decided Hoxha is better than Mao. The party makes descisions as a collective, and always has.

Thanks,

--Mista-X 15:35, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Point well taken, so I've brought the information back referring only to Bains himself:

In the 1960s and 1970s, Bains was identified as a Maoist. By 1978, following Mao's 1976 death, Bains became a supporter of the views of Enver Hoxha and the Albanian Party of Labour, which were Stalinist.

I'm trusting the editor or editors who added this/let it stand earlier on factual accuracy; if any of this, referring to Bains rather than Bains and the party as a whole, is inaccurate or unrepresentative, I would of course support its amendment. Samaritan 16:11, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I agree the para was POV and needed to be deleted. There were many real world events which led Bains and CPC (ML)to change their views and can be found in party literature including a book by Bains which discussed the world wide debate on the theory of three worlds which Enver Hoxha denounced. Shortly after the death of Mao Tse Tung, Deng Xiaoping after some manouvring managed to take power and remove the Gang of Four who were adherents of the Cultural Revolution. He campaigned to discredit the cultural revolution. Enver Hoxha and the Albanian Party of Labour took a public position criticising the the rise of Deng Xiaoping and his policies. This was supported by Bains and eventually CPC (ML). It should be noted that many "Maoist oriented" groups were also struggling with the changes in China and the issue was heavily debated amongst the groups and within CPC(ML). CPC (ML)was one of the earliest groups to migrate to the views of Enver Hoxha and the Albanian Party of Labour after a Party Congress held in Montreal. Rick Hundal 22:56, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Stalinism"?

I don't much like Bains being identified as a "Stalinist". "Stalinism" is a term only used by those who are anti-Stalin in almost all circumstances. Those who actually uphold Stalin are just Marxist-Leninist. Supporters of Enver Hoxha are usually referred to as Hoxhaites.

--Mista-X 16:18, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hmm... but aren't these issues (about Stalinism) reflected pretty well in the article Stalinism? Samaritan 16:30, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

That whole article is writted POV, and is horribly anti-communist and anti-Stalin. Bains would never have called himself a "Stalinist", nor would any of his comrades, so why is it fair to lable him a "Stalinist"? If anything, it should be noted that this is a term used by his opponents IMO. --Mista-X 16:46, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

As opposed to "anti-revisionist"? I'm reminded of the words of Dr. Hibbert: "And hillbillies prefer to be called 'sons of the soil' but it ain't gonna happen". Carolynparrishfan 03:02, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's been over twelve years, but actually, "anti-revisionist" is the correct term now as it was then. You're as much of a clown as Parrish is. 70.29.99.162 (talk) 15:11, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sikh?

I noticed this article has the Sikh stub template: This Sikh biographical article is a stub. But his religion is not mentioned in the article, how do we know he's a Sikh? -- OlEnglish ^(Talk) 10:04, 16 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hardial Bains was an atheist. His family, however, was Sikh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tellsthetruth (talk • contribs) 03:33, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

OlEnglish is asking for a source. --Mista-X (talk) 04:35, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The user is correct. He was an atheist and he did come from a Sikh family. He is acknowledged in Sikh publications as having been part of the Sikh community. Reference: International Bibliography of Sikh Studies. Kittyhundal (talk) 03:16, 20 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hephaestus books?

The article references at least two works published by Hephaestus Books (HB).

HB appears to be in the business of selling reprints of Wikipedia articles. Thus, these are circular references, and should be deleted. See, for example: Jerry Pournelle's article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.32.192.35 (talk) 19:22, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That would be right IF the content of these two books is in fact from Wikipedia. But if as seems much more likely it's from "other Creative Commons" sources - like pamphlets made freely available by the communist party - then the references are independent and can stay. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:06, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Ben Seattle

Does being slagged off by any old "leftist" (<--- a meaningless catch-all word) warrant a mention? Ben Seattle's self-published page is not a thoughtful academic piece, but a hateful diatribe with every word calculated to land the maximum amount of damage to Bains' credibility, starting with the title In memory of a charlatan. It's clear if you read it that Seattle is an unabashed revisionist, and that he has a personal axe to grind with Bains, as well as hating Stalin and his supporters more broadly. So, with that said, can someone please explain how this is WP:NPOV? It's like citing the Westboro Baptist Church as an authoritative source on homosexuality. Fucking ridiculous! 174.89.132.146 (talk) 16:25, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]