Talk:Koro (disease)

Penis Panic?

Why is this article titled "penis panic"? It is more commonly referred to as "genital retraction syndrome" or "koro" in the literature. I realize people may more readily understand "penis panic", but it is a rather unscientific term. Saar42 22:30, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Christ, there always has to be someone out there trying to bore up Wikipedia. 72.192.62.77 19:03, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Right on, this is the funniest article i have ever read. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.83.121.172 (talk) 22:23, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I positively agree. The best parts here on the talk page have got be the monkey penis conversation directly below, the fellatio cure below that and the pharmaceutically enhanched victim below that. This talk page is the most hilarious thing I have yet read on Wikipedia.

Following paragraph is response by user 99.130.8.150: This "Penis Panic" Wiki-Tabloid article is obviously another sly design by depraved and lonely members of society (you know who!), and the weasel language totally smacks of anti-Asian (and anti-African) "intellectual" verbiage. The term "shuk-yang" or "suoyang" is a TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) term which means loss of "yang" male essence or vitality, often due to too much sexual activity and inadequate nutrition and rest, but it does not indicate the patient is "PENIS PANICKING", or otherwise freaking out. Take a look at this "Penis Panic" propaganda-article's available language versions (Česky, Deutsch, Francais, Nederlands, Polski and Suomi), and you'll understand the background of, and the readers that such an article is intended to make them feel better about themselves (lol). 24 September 2010 (UTC) 99.130.8.150,(UTC)

"Penis panic" is the old title of this article; I will stick with the DSM-recognised medical term "koro". Also please note that there has been drastic change of the article since 2008, so if you are referring to the current article, please open a new section for discussion.

In the context of TCM, a "shuk-yang" patient does have a state of anxiety. Please refer to the many articles listed in the reference list which are written by either Chinese psychiatrists or TCM practitioners, or those which are published in China. All of them will refer to the cases in which the patients are having the symptoms of koro as of shuk-yang. Loss of "yang" essence alone would have another Chinese phrase to refer to (陽氣衰).

As an Asian medical student interested in both psychiatry and anthropology, I don't really see any orientalistic issue in this well-referenced article. Culture-specific syndrome is an ignored topic in psychiatry, not to mention medicine in general. Please don't overlook the effort in good faith of many Wikipedians - it is hard enough to work against the vandalism on this article. Dono (talk) 15:34, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Treatment of Koro

How can Koro be treated by "a course of alprazolam and imipramine"? The article seems to say that Koro refers to the retraction of the penis into the body, and that this is impossible. --[[User:be inclined to put it into the large category of symptoms resulting from somato-sensory affectional deprivation, that is, lack of physical affection in childhood, adolescence and adulthood. Our own modern society is full with the most bizarre sexual fetishes, and sex panics are perhaps little more than a more chaotic way to deal with similar neuropsychological manifestations.

Take a look at these pictures. They show a monkey reared in isolation, with no physical affection. He no longer recognizes his own body parts and attacks them as if they were not a part of his own self. Touch appears to be essential for the development of self-identity, as well as for the correct "wiring" of the pleasure/pain circuits in the brain -- see this article for the underlying research and this one I wrote for Kuro5hin for some speculation about the implications.—Eloquence 02:40, Oct 26, 2003 (UTC)

Take a look at these pictures. Some other time, really. Paul Klenk 05:42, 26 Oct 2003 (UTC)

There's no penis on these pictures. If you want to see a monkey penis, here is one.—Eloquence 05:47, Oct 26, 2003 (UTC)

Someone else, excellent work on Penis panic -- we're really getting somewhere on this subject. Keep up the hard work. Paul Klenk 02:17, 26 Oct 2003 (UTC)

William S. Burroughs mentions Koro breafly in his book Naked Lunch. Auric The Rad 17:58, Nov 26, 2003 (UTC)

Question

Call me ignorant, but what's an electronic comb? Shaver, toothbrush, hair trimmer, yes but comb? Andy G 20:27, 2 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Suggestion

Suggestion:

This actually seems to belong in the category of 'dysmorphism' disorders like obsessive body-builders who would would rather kill themselves with steroids than suffer the indignity of losing their muscle definition, or anorexics who will starve themselves to death thinking they are 'fat' all the while. The only major difference it seems is that it is 'sporadic' in a wide portion of the population instead of constant in a smaller portion (if the account on the existing page is reliable). Or is there also a small segment of the population who suffer this syndrome constantly? I bet there is... I think there need to be links to and from the pages on these disorders. Hmm, there is a page for Anorexia, but not one for Body Dismorphism Disorder yet. New page needed? :)

Penis panic? Similar to anorexia? Its not like these people want their penises to go away, be stolen, etc. As far as who suffers, interestingly, particular varieties of penis panic (Koro, for example) exist almost exclusively in certain geographic regions. Don't know if there are particular segments of those particular populations that are particularly more likely to suffer from this particula phobia, though. I was really hoping I could squeeze another "particular" in there! Ha! Just did! This whole thing does remind me, though, that there should probably be a link to vagina dentata on the page, assuming the article still exists... -Seth Mahoney 02:41, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

"Common misconception"

"Another common misconception is that the penis can be kept safely in a woman's mouth."

Can someone provide a source for that? Sounds too bizarre to be true. 18.246.0.79 10:41, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I don´t agree. It's not even a misconception. The penis can be kept safely in a woman's mouth. Or a man's for that matter! please refer to oral sex for more information. Stenbh 21:37, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I believe that sentence refers to teeth introducing a risk of possible penectomy. Rafał Pocztarski 04:07, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Unsourced for two months. I'm deleting it. It can go back if someone sources it properly. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 19:12, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)

In all seriousness, I suspect it may be trying to express the idea that if a man who is undergoing an attack of koro/shook yang were to have his organ held in a woman's mouth, this would thus prevent it from retracting/shrinking/disappearing. --Dpr 06:22, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

In fact I believe it's common for it to do quite the opposite. Boing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.199.181.88 (talk) 02:39, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

a penis can be kept in any orifice long as there are no excessive fluids and it can also be kept safely in men's mouths

Rename to Genital Retraction Syndrome

Is there any support for renaming/redirecting this page to Genital retraction syndrome (GRS), allowing it to become more general. Koro is not exclusively a penis panic, thus much of the article related more to GRS than to penis panics, as it is. ~ Dpr 07:06, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

On the other hand (actually, I haven't checked the article to confirm this - I'm going on memory, so if I'm mistaken, oopsey!), there are mentions on the current article that wouldn't fit under genital retraction syndrome. We can always create an article for koro, and of course we can always have both penis panic and genital retraction syndrome. -Seth Mahoney 17:46, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

You are correct. However, the material that doesn't specifically derive from genital retraction syndrome is still related to it--in other words, all penis panics (it seems) are still instances of GRS. But splitting GRS into its own article makes sense also; if so, I'd recommend leaving Koro as part of the GRS article and describing it as both a subcategory of GRS and often a manifestation of penis panics. --Dpr 02:38, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Personal Experience

First of all, I know there is a reference to the belief that Koro can be cured by oral sex in Joseph Cambell's Hero With a Thousand Faces.

Secondly, I know that an anonymous internet report carries absolutely no scientific weight, but this has actually happened to me 3 times.

The first time it happened was the first time I ever used a psychedelic drug (mushrooms). At one point during the trip, I went to urinate. I whipped it out, and as I was staring at the patterns in the floor, I noticed that my penis was actually shrinking into my body. It was odd, but I let it continue for awhile. Once half my glans had disappeared (I did not have much body fat at the time, either) I decided I didn't want to see the end of this process, and pinched what was left between my fingers. After what seemed like a few minutes, (I know, I was tripping) It stopped pulling into me, and I was able to tug it out. I waited a little while to make sure it wasn't going to try that again, then pissed and left.

The second time it happened to me, I was really drunk and had narrowly avoided a serious beatdown. I ducked into the bathroom and it happened again.

The third time I was at a small town dive bar, and had just gotten high. Things started to just seem strange, in that way they sometimes do. Once again, went to the bathroom and I had to save my penis.

Now, one could say that I was either in a state of psychosis or panic for each of these instances, but they all definitely happened. That this might actually happen is appropriately dismissed by the scientific community, but how in the world would you repeat these conditions in the lab? Even if I had had a video camera handy, capturing the event for posterity wasn't the first thing on my mind. I still have no idea what would have happened if I hadn't resisted.

One could easily imagine states of anxiety and psychosis happening more often in more primitive areas, where belief in magic and witchcraft is common. I'm probably not the only one in the world this has ever happened to. I don't doubt that in the Sudan case mass hysteria was a factor, but something like this does actually occur in reality. 207.32.47.14 15:29, 9 December 2005 (UTC)yep

Yes, I see. You were always drunk, tripping or high... but it "definitely happened". Not like you could have been hallucinating or anything. And you're not like those "primitive" people who believe in such silly things as magic and witchcratf, oh no, you are a rational-minded fellow - with a drug problem and a scientifically impossible shrinking penis problem.Rglong 20:40, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

To his defense here, I think I know what he means, although personally I haven't even tried alcohol. It's more a matter of philosophy and the definition of the word "happens". What you see, hear and feel are just signals that the brain itself creates, with help from the eyes and nerves, but still filtered and processed. So if you're under influence, and something like that "happens", it's as real to you as it would be if a real physical change would have taken place. I think he argues that the people that this happened to actually saw it, and thought it was real, so it was not just some rumour that started on no grounds. Pipatron (talk) 13:32, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Which Zionist?

Under "Sudan", does the reference to supposed "Zionist" influence refer to Israel-related Zionism, as linked, or to the African Christian religion of that name? JackyR 20:39, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I would gues it fits under here... YeshuaDavid (talk) 19:48, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Breasts?

Genital retraction syndrome (GRS), generally considered a culture-specific syndrome, is a condition in which an individual is overcome with the belief that his/her external genitals—or also, in females, breasts—...

Erm, since when have breasts been "genitals"? Not that there can't be a similar, related female phenomenon, but surely it would fall under some other name? --Lode Runner 08:47, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

guess u don't know the meaning of the word "or".... 2601:19C:527F:A660:69C2:95C4:85B7:ECAE (talk) 05:30, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

DSM

The DSM-IV discusses this stuff. Someone interested should probably cite the relevant section of it. Quux0r 05:15, 1 April 2007 (UTC) Yes, tits —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.26.110.65 (talk) 02:28, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

For the record

I'd shrink my penis too, if my name was combs. --71.230.142.176 22:09, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Sudan

In my opinion the sudan section seems very fake because it is idiotic and there are mistakes such as spacing mistakes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.89.135.153 (talk) 01:39, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

"The hysterical reports were spread throughout Sudan by means of cell phone text-messaging"? I think we all need to thank World Vision for apparently delivering crates of used cell phones to Sudan. Now, instead of dealing with the real problems of AIDS, leprosy, poverty, and the Darfur conflict, these people can fill their heads with urban legends about witchcraft and shrinking penises, as well as the latest American celebrity gossip, and waste their time playing that snake game for hours at a time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.234.13.190 (talk) 19:27, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

This is the most amusing thing I have ever read. Ever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.26.110.93 (talk) 04:11, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I find it disturbing that not only was the "penis-melting zionist robot combs" article deleted from Wikipedia: all reference to it has now been deleted from all Wikipedia articles, and now you can no longer find the original article by James Taranto anywhere. I'm no loony, but it really seems like a cover-up to me. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad (talk) 21:09, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

A bit of sleuthing years later and I find out that the Penis-melting Zionist robot combs article was **deleted** (apparently salted) by a user named "A Man in Black", who was later permabanned from Wikipedia in 2009 for canvassing. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad (talk) 18:23, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Vote to rename to Genital Retraction Syndrome

I'd like to propose a vote to change the article name to Genital Retraction Syndrome, as the current article title seems both unencyclopedic and rather suggestive. I thought that this had something to do with porn at first. Also, Koro may have some extra factors going into it, but as mentioned here, the other factors could be included or Koro could even have it's own article.Merechriolus (talk) 19:35, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Change

• Change for the reasons I mentioned above.
• Change since it's more neutral. Change 'Penis panic' to a redirect. Kellen^T 21:25, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Comments

http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSN2319603620080423?feedType=RSS&feedName=oddlyEnoughNews&rpc=22&sp=true —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.232.106.75 (talk) 05:57, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Penis Panic in popular media

Penis Panic is mentioned in William S. Burroughs novel "Naked Lunch"

Zedd in Terry Goodkind's novel "Wizard's First Rule" scares an angry mob by pretending to magic away their penises. Occamsrazorwit (talk) 08:35, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Alex Jones alleges soft drinks are shrinking penises 21 May 2022 https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1527470594173829120 Jaystephens (talk) 08:21, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Request for Comments - Science / Medicine (no longer needed pending update from new sources)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Re: Adding / Removing a sentence on Peyronie's Disease in the introduction of this article.

I added a clarification to the top of this page that Koro (a psychological condition) should not be confused with the biological condition with the same symptoms (early stage Peyronie’s Disease). I cited 2 sources, The Journal of Urology (peer reviewed) and the National Kidney and Urologic Diseases Information Clearinghouse (NKUDIC). Then, “OhNoItsJamie” immediately deleted this change and cited WP:SYNTH. He did not post on the talk page or clarify this any further. Deleting my sentence due to WP:SYNTH was not an accurate application of that guideline. So, I sent him a detailed explanation of why I made the change & why WP:SYNTH did not apply. He simply replied in 1 sentence that all information has to be sourced & reliable (apparently ignoring the fact I cited the leading journal in the field of urology the first time)... I suppose he saw me state that I have a MA and PhD and immediately assumed I was injecting my own personal experience. The reality is I AM using my perspective & knowledge of these topics to draw the information from the sources (peer reviewed journals) - and that is the point of wikipedia (multiple people coming together with different sets of knowledge). Some people are going to know more about topics than others, and having rules applied by people who are ignorant of the topics just makes the articles worse.

Therefore, I would like to keep my statement as it appears in the edit, which simply stated “This psychological condition should not be confused with Peyronie's Disease which is a urological condition in which the penis shrinks in size due to scar tissue.” I also added "Peyronie’s disease" to the “see also” section (which OhNoItsJamie also deleted for unknown reasons). So, I want to add that back as well. His complaint that I am not citing sources makes no sense, given that I cited 2 prominent sources. As far as talking about 1 disease in an article where another disease is mentioned goes (the WP:Synth complaint), that is not a violation of WP:SYNTH. Every disease that is related to another disease gets discussed on Wikipedia articles. And, I am only asking to add 1 very short (but important) sentence - not an entire section on Peyronie's disease. Additional information below Angelatomato (talk) 02:04, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Here's a source that connects the two which is not written by me or "original research" as OhNoItsJamie seems to want to insist: http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/48384062/strange-case-disappearing-penis. If you cannot access empirical journals (usually only through universities or libraries) to see this, google google "koro and peyronies disease" so you can see previews where they are mentioned without having access. This is a RARE condition so you will not see 1000s of sources, but here's one.

(yes, I know the support / oppose comments are totally loaded - but this is actually the reality of what you are voting on & why I find it so mind-boggling and frustrating that OhNoItsJamie insists on deleting that sentence)

Survey:

• Support inclusion of the sentence, which helps clarify that koro is a psychological condition about male penis size shortening that can be confused with the biological condition called peyronie's disease if a patient is not evaluated properly.
• Oppose inclusion of this sentence because it would be better to let the reader believe anyone who claims they are experiencing this has a mental disorder rather than leave open the possibility that it could be a legitimate urological condition.

1 -- Support - There is no reason for this sentence not to be included. Sources are cited, it is not a violation of wp:synth - and this information is very important to understand these disorders which have an important connection. From reading Koro as it is now, it sounds like there couldn't possibly be a "real" biological disease like this - but there certainly is...and this needs to be made clear.Ancillary0101 (talk) 04:46, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Neither of the two sources that Angelatomato added supplied connected Koro and Peyronie's. Angelatomato notes in a lengthy note on my talk page, " I know this is sounding like "original research" here but there are simply no published papers on the number of medical practitioners who refer patients to psychologists who think their penises are shrinking. Sorry - there just are none and will never be any. There is not a published source for every clinical occurrence out there. Such an expectation is impossible. Thus, clinical experience prevails where empirical research does not exist in medical practice. Besides, I do not need a citation for the Synth at all (per the guidelines). My own experience with these 2 conditions & pure logic make the connection obvious. I still cited published sources that were relevant." This amounts to "WP:SYNTH doesn't apply to me because I'm an expert." Wrong. It applies to everyone. I should also note that your "survey definitions" of a support/oppose vote are ridiculous. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 13:52, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

If you want to take that quote out of context...go ahead...the point was that I am in the real world with patients who have this (or peyronie's disease) - not the wikipedia admin world - so I don't have to go through a bureaucratic maze to connect two ideas that have nearly IDENTICAL symtoms in the early phase (i.e., citing an article that says the sky is blue is not necessary). However, since you've forced me to jump through your hoops, then here's a citation for you. Can you access to empirical journals (usually only through universities) to see this? If you google "koro and peyronies disease" you can see previews where they are mentioned without having access. This is a RARE condition so you will not see 1000s of sources, but here's one: http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/48384062/strange-case-disappearing-penis

Regardless, can you please just accept that I am trying to improve the article and move on. Your application of wikipedia guidelines is incorrect (wp:synth is not violated and it is a flexible policy - go read it again yourself). I am asking for other opinions from people with actual science / medicine backgrounds since you have you missed the point of what I wrote & of the citations entirely. You are making irresponsible edits that harm the quality of the content and other users for some reason that I cannot fathom. I have a PhD in psychology & your issues are obvious, but I won't even go there...I've read complaints about you all over the web. People have stopped using wikipedia because of you. Google your screen name & count the number of people you've driven off this site with your bizarre power trip behavior. I've published in peer reviewed journals & responded to 30 pages of criticism which have been easier to deal with than your behavior...I'm leaving it up to others to add their opinions. Remember, this is a collaborative website. You don't own it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Angelatomato (talk • contribs) 14:23, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Other things to note: With the sentence added, a male reader who is concerned about this issue happening to him would know that he should seek out the advice of a medical doctor rather than a psychologist (and a doctor reading this would not send his patients to me, a psychologist who treats sexual health issues...this is not meant as "original research" and I am not putting it in the article - and this is why...doctors are often lazy & uninformed and think unusual things are psychological problems). If it is a user concerned about his own condition, letting him believe he has a mental illness is particularly bad because Peyronie's disease is most treatable in the early stages (when penile shortening occurs)...and after that, it is very hard to reverse.

No, I can't "move on." WP:Verifiability, WP:RS, and WP:OR are policies that are not debatable, period. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 15:40, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, and that one tiny little sentence does not violate any of those policies. Who appointed you the supreme court judge of wikipedia? This is a collaborative website, correct? So, I have asked for other opinions and we will see what they say. You are interpreting the guidelines incorrectly, and therefore the guidelines suggest I put out a request for comment, which I did. If every rule on earth was so back and white, we wouldn't have millions of lawyers and judges, would we? Sorry we are seeing this completely differently, but I doubt this is the first time it happened on here. Look at your talk page - first I asked you to work with me to come up with a sentence that satisfied your interpretation of the guidelines & the information that is published...but you decided against it...so I posted the RFC & per the RFC "promotion" guidelines, I put it in the medicine section, which you then called a "crusade"...it appears you are only interested in deleting the sentence and being right - and not improving the content at all. Angelatomato (talk) 16:05, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose exempting this article from WP:Verifiability, one of the pillars of Wikipedia. The proposed addition is original research. This RfC is premised upon the appeal to pity fallacy rather than policy, and should be treated accordingly.Novangelis (talk) 18:24, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

First, there is nothing that is not verifiable - even within wikipedia itself. The symptoms for early stage Peyronie's and for Toro are similar in many ways. And, much of that has already been up here & published for a long time. Second, I did not "appeal to pity". What I was describing is that this condition - like every condition, requires a differential diagnosis that forces the physician to rule out other things like actual biological causes. So, a patient may present the claim that his penis has shortened, and the doctor must evaluate if this is biological or psychological. If this is not done, then the consequences are going to be adverse, just like any misdiagnosis in the field of medicine. That does not follow your "appeal to pity" fallacy whatsoever. I did state, as an aside (and personal story - i know - god forbid), that I have had patients who were misdiagnosed & could not then acquire proper treatment since the window of opportunity had closed. But, my clinical experience is not the reason this article needs to be changed. It needs to be changed because it does not present the full picture of the condition, clearly, as separate from other related psychological or biological conditions. I just found a differential diagnosis article on Koro and Body Dysmorphic Disorder - which I have added here so you can read all about that (or delete it due to some other wikipedia rule I suppose.).Angelatomato (talk) 18:42, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Without a source explicitly saying A and B "are similar in many ways", the associating A and B to reach a conclusion is original research (synthesis), by definition of the policy. Adding an appeal to consequences over appeal to pity does not change the fact that no reliable source has been provided to make the connection.Novangelis (talk) 19:10, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

(I found 3 citations that all support everything so feel free to ignore the below text - but this is what I wrote earlier) Something is not getting through here...Let me try another example: Have you ever wondered if you had some disease because you feel sick...for example, if you googled "i feel dizzy and tired and my skin itches"? If you wrote that, up will come dozens of articles and sites like WebMD or the Mayo Clinic (and wikipedia) and you'll see a giant list of all the possible things you might have. (I did not actually do this search, but I assume you know what I am talking about...if not- I will provide an actual example). Anyway, this activity is basically you doing a differential diagnosis on yourself based on your primary symptoms. None of those diseases that mayo or WebMD list have peer reviewed articles supporting their relations to -->each other<-- for any medical reason. An inner ear infection and leukemia are not related by themselves... They are related because the SYMPTOMS might be similar. Because you typed in your symptoms, you get a list of disorders that match from the flu to inner ear infection to leukemia...BUT (and this is the critical thing about WP:SYNTH and the original research accusations) there are NO papers that are written about differentiating between the flu, an inner ear infection, and leukemia - for people who are dizzy, tired, and itchy. That is not how medicine works, and that is not how peer reviewed publishing works (an editor would reject the paper since it would be nonsensical).

So, why are you all setting up an impossible expectation for me to find an article that says Koro (a very rare disorder with almost 100% psych articles) can be confused with peyronies disease (another very rare disorder with 100% urological articles) when the two literatures never even talk to each other. Urologists and psychologists don't cross paths or cite each other's work. And, I looked up a dozen other medical conditions on here - and ALL of them have non-cited related illnesses...MANY illnesses. So, the best I can do is say - a differential diagnosis would NECESSITATE examination for peyronie's disease on presentation of symptoms for Koro (based on the fundamental principles of medical practice - which I would cite, even though it is not even cited on the differential diagnosis page amazingly..that page just has a big "needs citation" flag)...and this is the best any doctor could do in real life too. I can only assume it is due to ignorance that I have been made to jump through these hoops. So, if this satisfies all of you, I will create a section on the differential diagnosis / Related conditions of Koro, add the various conditions are relevant (even AIDS is mentioned in a 2004 paper - I've been doing quite a bit of research today). Then, I will cite the sources, and that will be that. It is no different than any other differential diagnosis for any other disease... 99% of which are not even cited...but since I am under the microscope now - I will do my best to find you all some citations. How's that? Angelatomato (talk) 20:13, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

I found this, which I think resolves the problem. Please let me know. Thank you. Bernstein, R. L., & Gaw, A. C. (1990). Koro: Proposed classification for DSM-IV. American Journal of Psychiatry, 147, 1670–1674. An other thing just suggested to me by a user on my talk page would be to put it back in See Also, and I read the WP:SEEALSO guildelines & it complies. Angelatomato (talk) 20:43, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm not going to object to adding it back to the "See also" section, but I will vehemently object to any passages connecting the two without a source that explicitly connects the two. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 21:01, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

OK - I will put it back there...can you let me know what you think of the suggested changes below? Angelatomato (talk) 21:29, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Ok - here's an update. I have 3 sources as follows (sorry the formatting is a mess - i'll fix it - but my main question is below): Penile size and the ‘small penis syndrome’ Kevan R. Wylie* and Ian Eardley† Porterbrook Clinic, Sheffield Care Trust, Sheffield, *Urology, Royal Hallemshire Hospital, Sheffield, and †Urology, St James’s Hospital, Leeds, UK Accepted for publication 15 December 2006

Position Paper: Management of Men Complaining of a Small Penis Despite an Actually Normal Size Hussein Ghanem, MD,* Sidney Glina, MD,† Pierre Assalian, MD,‡ and Jacques Buvat, MD§ J Sex Med DOI: 10.1111/j.1743-6109.2012.02725.x April 2012

Koro—The Psychological Disappearance of the Penis SEXUAL MEDICINE HISTORY Johan J. Mattelaer, MD, FEBU,* and Wolfgang Jilek, MD, MSc, MA, FRCP(C)†

• History Office of the European Association of Urology, Kortrijk, Belgium; †Clinical Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada

J Sex Med 2007;4:1509–1515

These are very long, somewhat complicated articles...and it will take a while to read through all of this & create a final product. There is no doubt anymore that the two issues are cited together, but there is a LOT more information in these 3 articles alone than there is in the current wikipedia article. I am not sure how to get the new content into the existing framework. Perhaps, the best thing to do would be to expand the section where I added the BDD reference (diagnosis) - because the focus of these articles (and my initial addition) is about differential diagnosis and examination... Also, the current wording in the "medicine" section of the article doesn't make sense. Why does it say "Medicine" and then "Genital examination reveals no actual instances of penis shrinkage or retraction. Any actual injury or damage that occurs to individuals usually arises from overly zealous attempts at preventing retraction." - that would be during examination...not treatment ("medicine" implies treatment). So, I'd have to rewrite more than I anticipated...which I am hesitant to do if it is all going to be reverted & bc it will take a lot of time (which i dont care about if it stays - but not if it is just deleted again). So, what are the guidelines on how much of the existing framework can be changed? It is clearly sloppy in the "medicine" section now, and I can easily fix it. Then, I think Diagnosis should be expanded into 2 subheads or 1 heading that reads "examination and differential diagnosis" (and I will add the main points of what is in the 3 articles that link everything together - including 2 other disorders i never heard of that are part of the differential diagnosis) and then the word "medicine" should be changed to the word "treatment" and the existing content about therapy should remain... I won't add anything there. Angelatomato (talk) 21:21, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

No, the injury described is caused by patients trying various methods of reverting the delusional retraction prior to examination.Novangelis (talk) 21:37, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand...What I meant was that the quote about injury is under the section called "medicine" which is out of place. Do you mean these injuries are self-medication? Anyway, most medical articles go from a diagnosis (exam, differential) section to a treatment (drug, psychotherapy) section, and that is covered in the BJU article. The injuries would be seen during the exam phase (BJU calls it "Assessment" - US term is usually "exam"). Angelatomato (talk) 21:52, 7 December 2012 (UTC) ALso, the injury statement is unsourced. There is no citation that people with Toro self-injure their genitals...so I will have to remove that when i do the edit unless I happen to see it in the articles I have here...whoever wrote it never put a source down. Angelatomato (talk) 22:11, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome to make organizational changes or add other appropriately sources information to the article, as long as any updates follow WP:MOS. There may be other conventions related to medical articles that I'm not aware of off the top of my head; Wikiproject Medicine participants could help there. Thus far my only objection to your contributions has been expounding upon an association between two conditions (Koro and Peyronie's) that isn't explicitly supported by available sources. As you've been told by a number of folks here, it doesn't matter if you are the Surgeon General; we don't make exceptions to our WP:OR and WP:Verifiability policies, regardless of anyone's expertise or clinical experience. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 21:40, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Ok thanks I will look for a template...yes, things will all come together w/ sources now - it's just more complicated bc I am not sure the entire litany of things written in these articles would make sense for WP... but then again, I can't cherry pick just what I wanted to add (e.g., there are 2 other conditions I never heard of that are mentioned aside from Peyronie's)... so I have to figure out how to write it so it fits into a normal WP medical article w/o being 10 pages. Angelatomato (talk) 21:52, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose I don't think there is an issue with people confusing the two, and I don't think it has weight to be in the article itself. IRWolfie- (talk) 21:23, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Adding Brief note about Peyronies Disease (When doctors misdiagnose Koro)

I have a MA and PhD in psychology (family, couple & sexuality focus) - and I have experience with patients who were "diagnosed" with this and sent to me. Virtually all of these men had early-onset peyronie's disease where the penis shrinks due to scar tissue (it shrinks before it curves - about a year in advance, when you can still treat it), but they are told it is a psychiatric condition and it was all in their head (and they missed a critical opportunity to treat it). One of them even brought in this wikipedia article to me! I tried to add a note about Peyronie's disease to this article due to this, but but "OhNoItsJamie" (an admin here) decided to remove my edit - and this person did not leave a note other than something about my edit being "wp:synth". The following is my reply to him & I would like to add the sentence back with your support. Thank you.

---

I noticed you removed my reference to Peyronie's disease (PD) in the Koro article. I have since read all about WP:Synth, and I think you need to reevaluate how much you know about these two topics before citing that guideline. The two topics are certainly related. By what I say next: please do not think I am not creating original research or advocating a position. I do have a MA and PhD (which have allowed me to deal with people who have this issue) - but that only means I have a different perspective than you, which is the entire point of wikipedia. I could not explain the entire perspective in the character limited box on the edit log of the page. Regarding the "synth" issue - here is the connection: Patients are sent to psychologists who "think" their penises are shrinking and that they have a "version of penis panic" by primary care physicians. These patients do not know what Peyronie's disease is - and neither do their doctors (it is very rare and hard to diagnose at first). I know this is sounding like "original research" here but there are simply no published papers on the number of medical practitioners who refer patients to psychologists who think their penises are shrinking. Sorry - there just are none and will never be any. There is not a published source for every clinical occurrence out there. Such an expectation is impossible. Thus, clinical experience prevails where empirical research does not exist in medical practice. Besides, I do not need a citation for the Synth at all (per the guidelines). My own experience with these 2 conditions & pure logic make the connection obvious. I still cited published sources that were relevant. I can't imagine why you would actually think it benefits any wikipedia user to delete my edit under the synth guideline (which is very flexible), either. It does not make the article more organized or clear, as the SYNTH guideline is intended to do. The issue here is that you lack the understanding of WHY these two disorders are significantly related from a clinical perspective...and I have that understanding. If you can't accept that - sorry - but if you have a PhD or MA in psych with a focus on sexual health issues (and I am not creating original research - just bringing another perspective!) then please let me know. Otherwise, you just need to accept when you are unaware of a topic. I didn't spend 5 years running on a hamster wheel of graduate school so I could see patients come into my office with a print out of the very wikipedia article that I tried to correct (which you apparently will not let me) who have Peyronie's Disease (and a lazy primary care physician) and not "Penis Panic" or a psych condition (thus missing the window to have any medical interventions early on). I won't edit anything now because I know you will just revert it again - but I await your reply. I am sure we can mutually agree on an edit that incorporates Peyronie's disease into that article even if you felt the original edit somehow violated the guidelines of wikipedia. Thanks. Angelatomato (talk) 23:50, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

I will add back the edit in a week if nobody objects.

Is there evidence that koro is being confused with Peyronie's disease? Is there a reliable source that states that the two should not be confused/conflated? Axl ¤ [Talk] 12:54, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes - but you need access to empirical journals (usually only through universities) to see that. If you google "koro and pyeornies disease" you can see previews where they are mentioned without having access. Otherwise, there are a number of sources, for example: http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/48384062/strange-case-disappearing-penis.

Please read WP:MEDRS for what we consider to be a reliable source. Do you have review articles or major textbooks that make this connection. Many of us here have access to world class e-libraries of journals. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 20:37, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

I found things after the above post. Too much time was wasted bickering over WP:SYNTH when I should have been spending time looking through the library (most things are online anyway now). I underestimated the possibility of finding articles about these issues since they are all very rare in the population. The articles I found actually mentioned more medical issues (to be excluded during differential diagnosis) than I anticipated (or even knew about). Angelatomato (talk) 03:29, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Headings, Subheadings, and Citation Formats

The vast majority of the literature talks about Koro solely related to the penis... but there is a little bit of discussion on women, though it is rare. So, I added a differential diagnosis section, but there was basically no literature on women that I could find. Everything was about men & urological issues. Sometimes, women are mentioned in a sentence - but then never again in the article. So, I added the heading "differential diagnosis and assessment males" - and then the "Exam" is for men. The exam for women is unknown - I couldn't find it published anywhere. I tried 2 headings before this - but I think this one is good. Still, if anyone has ideas for better headings and subheadings, please feel free to write them here. I changed the "medicine" section to "treatment" to be consistent w/ other medical articles. Also, there is no "medicine" - which sort of implies some kind of pharmaceutical...and none were mentioned in the Koro literature (though there are numerous drugs mentioned in the BDD literature). So, I just changed it to treatment with the subhead changed to therapy so it wasn't redundant. Again, if you have a better idea for this area - you can post here first or you can just edit it directly if you think it's logical. Thanks.

If you want to help with citation formats, I would appreciate it too.Angelatomato (talk) 03:27, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Differential diagnosis is sufficient. One can discuss the particulars in a single section with a single sentence for women. Also please use secondary sources and most of the ones being used are not. (see WP:MEDRS). Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 04:39, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

"Listed in the DSM misleading"

Koro is currently mentioned just once, very briefly in the DSM 5. On page 264. It is under the category of "Other Specified Obsessive-Compulsive and Related Disorder" heading. The entire entry is as follows

"Koro: Related to dhat syndrome (see "Glossary of Cultural Concepts of Distress" in the Appendix), an episode of sudden and intense anxiety that the penis (or vulva and nipples in females) will recede into the body, possibly leading to death."

I think better verbiage might be "mentioned briefly in the DSM 5" To the layman, "Listed in the DSM" will engender the disorder with the same scientific weight as much more clearly researched and defined disorders, such as schizophrenia. This condition is rare and almost certainly an entirely cultural construst.

Confusing introduction

It is introduced as a culture-specific syndrome, and then in the next sentence the introduction talks about how it occurs worldwide. This is contradictory and confusing. Please revise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:9:4900:168:863A:4BFF:FE75:6EB4 (talk) 06:26, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Traditionally a chinese problem

chinese asian men have traditionally have had a very small penis size compared to other ethnicities ranging from 3-4 inches. Their society dealt with it by creating neuter men who would serve chinese emperors.

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Requested move 23 May 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved uncontroversial (non-admin closure) >>> Extorc.talk 06:44, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

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Koro (medicine) → Koro (disease) – Most Wikipedia pages say "disease" instead of "medicine". 162.83.141.156 (talk) 00:05, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.