Talk:Richard Ramirez

Higgins

Is this the same Pattie Elaine Higgins, described under victims? http://articles.latimes.com/1985-08-25/local/me-24940_1_miss-higgins —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.33.43.9 (talk) 00:01, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Question

• Is there a legitimate reason why this page is not here anymore? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.75.45.225 (talk) 00:46, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

His preference in music?

Is this really important? BrianAlex (talk) 14:03, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

For a person that has taken the lives of others, who cares what he listens to, hopefully, he has NOTHING to listen to and by now cannot remember who or what he liked before he was imprisoned. This is not the WM3 case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.97.135.148 (talk) 04:12, 18 September 2011 (UTC) As for the question, I think yeah his musical tastes are important, because they led to some of the 90's anti-heavy metal nonsense. 124.168.181.224 (talk) 04:31, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

No it is not important and has no purpose being posted in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.15.30.125 (talk) 20:54, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Why? Give a good reason. 2602:306:BC83:DC10:802:E890:B790:C17D (talk) 19:35, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Because Wikipedia is an Encylopediea and not a place of worship for serial killers, look at the pages of Mahatma Ghandi, Mother Theresa or Martin Luther King and you wont find much if any about their tasted in food or music.84.112.106.126 (talk) 20:09, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

In Ramirez' biography, written by Phillip Carlo, Carlo seems to put blame on the music Ramirez was listening to. For him heavy metal had an influence on Ramirez' way of thinking and pumped up his aggression. Carlo wrote about it quiet often in his book. It might not be that important to the reader and to be honest, it is usually a lot of BS, but it is part of the whole story. At least for the biographer. And I hate to say it, but in this case the music/lyrics had an influence on the killer, considering that he was what you might call "criminally insane". It happens, one in a 100.000 times.--87.184.157.77 (talk) 09:02, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

If memory serves (I'll double-check when I get home), Carlo mentions the music (usually AC/DC), but never draws any cause/effect conclusions. Your conclusion that "the music had an influence on the killer" is original research, and therefore can't be used here. DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 19:57, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Doublechecked, and the memory—for once—was accurate. Also reviewed medical literature on this subject, and the consensus remains that music is a mirror of listeners' lives, rather than a causative factor in their behavior. The worst that anyone actually qualified to give an opinion has said is that music is perceived as harmful only when applied to preexisting states of negative arousal. DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 21:10, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

It's really dim-witted to not think that cruising with blazing music "highway to hell" while looking for his next victim isn't a big factor in this serial killer's attitude and behaviour. You don't need to be Einstein to work that one out. All the documentaries mention it, for obvious reason. Needless to draw a parallel between this and the well known influence violent movies & games have on kids behaviour these days. 86.174.211.41 (talk) 18:56, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

A 1985 article of the Los Angeles Times confirms Ramirez "was particularly attracted to the band’s -the AC/DC- 1979 hit album “Highway to Hell,” said Ray Garcia, 27, of El Sobrante, Calif. The album’s cover depicts a band member wearing devil’s horns, and one of the songs included is titled “Night Prowler.” — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.38.235.149 (talk) 13:27, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Section on this on the article on the relevant song

There's a good section on this at Night Prowler (song)#"Night Stalker" controversy Possibly the solution would be a small section on here with a Main Article link at the top of it to the Night Prowler song article's section on Ramirez.Romomusicfan (talk) 10:12, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

"The alternative juror who replaced Singletary was too frightened to return to her home."

This makes no sense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.30.250.248 (talk) 15:53, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

What don't you understand? It's saying that the alternative juror was too frieghted to leave the hotel to go home because the woman she was replacing was shot and killed and at that time, they suspected that Ramirez may have organized it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.15.30.125 (talk) 20:57, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/ramirez/justice_7.html. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 15:53, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for finding and fixing that.   Will Beback  talk  20:52, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Quite a shame, really. :/ It was an IP who found it, though; I just followed through with listing it for him or her. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 20:53, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Satanic influences

Hi there, as this article was in need of reference citations to verify the information within it, I have inserted several. (I will insert more as I have time in the near future). In reading articles etc to reference the information in the article, I noticed that virtually all the articles I read made reference to Ramirez's satanic beliefs. However, in this wiki article there is very little reference to this aspect of his life. As these beliefs seemed to be a pivotal part of his life and justification for committing the 'night-stalker' crimes, it seems odd that this is not really addressed in the wiki article. What do other contributors think about creating a new section which explores his relationship with satanism?Jihadcola (talk) 13:58, 21 May 2012 (UTC)Jihadcola

There are references to Richard Ramirez in the wikipedia articles about Anton Lavey and his "church of satan" organization in SanFrancisco but apparently the references don't go both ways. Denial of the satanism connection has also been a recurring situation in some major media treatment overall in relation to whether or not serial killers of the 1970s and 1980s had connections to satanism when it appeared several were going out of their way to proclaim it while Lavey and his group were trying to publicly duck legal liabilities. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.193.222.193 (talk) 02:36, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

I just saw an interview with LaVey's daughter where she said Ramirez was someone she knew. He was hanging around, to some degree. 73.152.30.9 (talk) 11:51, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Kermit the Frog

I really don't think he is the voice of Kermit the Frog. I guess someone started April Fool's early. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.25.103.33 (talk) 19:45, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Citation needed: nothing in the referred source mention's Ramirez' "face" being splattered with blood

Hello. I noticed that the text as stands claims that when Richard's cousin Mike murdered his wife, Richard was present and "her blood splattered on Ramirez's FACE." However, if you check the source, it never mentions the word "face." It states, "Author Philip Carlo, speaking on CNBC's Rivera Live, revealed that Ramirez was spattered with the woman's blood." Obviously this could also mean that Ramirez' shirt, his hand, sneakers, or other areas could have blood on them while "his face" did not. Please find a source that states "his face was splattered in blood" or simply revise the text to claim, as per the source, "...Ramirez was splattered with her bloood." Thanks114.158.149.78 (talk) 03:31, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Cause of death

Typical when a subject has recently died, we have two seemingly conflicting "causes of death". Many sources say he died of "natural causes" (at the age of 53), while others indicate "liver failure".[1][2] Seeing as he was an IV drug user (and other reports say he had Hepatitis C): my money's on liver failure. Time will tell. Please bear in mind that the C.O.D. is not official yet, and reports conflict. Doc talk 01:35, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

inasmuch as liver failure ~is~ fundamentally a natural cause, i see no conflict here. --emerson7 01:48, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Liver failure is far more specific a cause of death, much like "heart failure", and thetefore preferable as his C.O.D. Just my opinion. Doc talk 01:52, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

hate to belabour the point, but liver failure is ~very very general as a number of ailments could lead to it. hepatitis, sclerosis, cancer...just to name a few. at any rate, we do have proper and reliable....sourcing for it and i don't see a problem with noting it in the article until and unless something more specific is reported. --emerson7 02:02, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Is liver failure a complication of B-cell lymphoma? I was surprised to read that he died of that, given the substantially high rates of remission. Then again, some people do die of it or else it'd be a 100% remission rate! Matthias Alexander Jude Shapiro (talk) 16:14, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Questionable information regarding early life and head injuries

The head injuries were probably alleged to be "serious" by the defense, desperately seeking to find some exculpating issues. Experts know how to distinguish trivial concussions from those likely to be life-changing. We don't know how serious these injuries were. The only citation for "serious head injuries" in childhood is "true crime stories," a Wordpress blog, a secondary source, that provides no citations of its own. In other words, most of the information about his early life given in this article have the truth value of an urban legend until better sources can be found..

Much of the information in this article about Ramirez's early life is copy-and-paste from the True Crime Stories blog. Wikipedia readers deserve better.

Information given under oath at Ramirez's trial is probably available in the trial transcript, but the transcript is probably not available online. There are probably more reliable sources available, if anybody wants to hunt for them. If the trial transcript can be found, the defense's exculpating evidence was probably questioned by the prosecution. Ideally, the bigger picture would be considered.

Citations from Tru-TV are also embarrassing. This is not a reliable and objective information source.

Ramirez very likely had a severe mental disorder, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or schizoaffective disorder, possibly organic brain syndrome, and possibly antisocial personality disorder. Evidence was probably presented at trial. This information should be included in the article.108.219.39.17 (talk) 17:20, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

The article is in dire need of improvement (a major overhaul) and will be worked on. Please feel free to make any constructive improvements of your own. Doc talk 23:11, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Mental disorder(s)

What was he diagnosed with: ASPD? schizophrenia? Jim Michael (talk) 12:48, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Nope. Anna7711 (talk) 01:11, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Public Reaction

I'm unsure if this is appropriate, but I happened to be staying with friends in Long Beach, California shortly before Ramirez was captured. I went to a nearby home improvement center and discovered that it was completely sold out of the three-inch bolts that are frequently used to "pin" double-hung wooden windows, making them very difficult to pry open. I had to adapt another type of bolt for the windows of my friends' house. Checkers at the home improvement center told me that they had never sold so many deadbolts and other security hardware within recent memory.

After Ramirez was captured, my friends and I spent the day at Disneyland and didn't return until well after dark. When we arrived back at their house, we found every light blazing. It turned out that their roommate heard, or thought he heard someone outside a bedroom window, and the entire neighborhood was flooded with police within minutes of him reporting it. This may have been due to the fact that authorities may not have yet been certain that Ramirez always acted alone, it might have been a "copycat" incident, it may have just been a demonstration of how on edge everyone was, or possibly a combination of all three. RogerInPDX (talk) 16:42, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Miscellany

"The trial of Richard Ramirez was one of the most difficult and longest criminal trials in American history, taking over four years to finalize." - this obviously conflicts w/ the dates immediately prior as to jury selection beginning, guilty verdict, and penalty phase date. It comes from an 'About.com' article on the subject - which was masquerading in the links as a NYT article. I've deleted it. Irish Melkite (talk) 23:56, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Photograph for infobox

I would like to suggest that the 1984 mug shot of Ramirez be swapped with the image currently in the infobox because it is by far the most recognizable image of the subject, the subject is now deceased, and the images would also then be in chronological order. What are others' thoughts?Hoops gza (talk) 02:50, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Comment - As the '84 mug is not yet technically public domain, this move would be opposed procedurally through WP:NFCC. We must get this article beyond the current "Start" class rating. We need to expand this article, adding lots of referenced info about: the detectives who hunted him and the physical evidence, the section on his capture, his lengthy trial (one of the most expensive in that state's history), and much more. Any help raising this article above start-class would be greatly appreciated. Doc talk 03:50, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Different Birthdates

I did some research and both February 28 and February 29 1960 give equal results as Ramirez's date of birth. Not only that but both dates of birth are found in numerous reliable sources (including this [3]] NYTimes article written a day after his death showing his DOB as Feb 28. Here's where it gets even stranger. I searched the Texas Birth Database at Family Tree Legends and two results come up for Ricardo Ramirez (his birth name) one for Feb 28, 1960 and another for Feb 27, 1960. So now we have a possible third birth date, huh?? Can someone who has more knowledge in this area help to find out what Ramirez's actual date of birth is because right now it should at least say Feb 29 OR 28 in the article? Thanks. Emivam (talk) 04:06, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

I'll help look into this. If reliable sources are equally divided on the day of his birth, your solution is the right way to go. I know that Carlo has his birthday as the 29th - it's also worth noting that Feb. 29th is a leap year day that only occurs once every four years. If he was born on a leap year, there should be some notes on that out there. Keep digging. Doc talk 01:00, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

While Carlo's book says Feb. 29th I've found pictures of his birth certificate online and there are a few Q&A type papers he himself filled out in prison saying his birthday is Feb 28th, not the 29th.Kiwirush (talk) 10:25, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Satanist

Ramirez was a devil worshipper, not a satanist. I am not a satanist myself, but I know that satanism is essentially a form of humanitarianism, NOT worshipping satan. The fact that he called himself a satanist is about as relevant as someone calling themself a vegeterian, while eating seafood. Just as those people are pesciterians, no matter what they say, Ramirez is a devil worshipper, no matter what he says --188.110.121.169 (talk) 08:38, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Complete and utter rubbish. Consult a dictionary, or any good solid specialist source. Crackpot personal views have no place on the Wiki TP's, anon. HammerFilmFan (talk) 21:31, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Um, no. OP is talking about LaVeyan Satanism [[4]] as is the person in the comment that follows below. However I guess it is pataytoe patahtoe to most people. 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:FD66:73F2:8691:FB57 (talk) 09:27, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

The definition of satanist is someone who worships themselves as their own God. Ramirez worshipped the devil and truly believed Satan was a real being. Satanists are considered atheists, because they do not believe in a God nor do they believe in Satan himself. People commonly get these two mixed up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:BE21:FE00:555C:947A:9C3B:89D8 (talk) 01:02, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

It may be helpful to mention these maxims of LaVeyan Satanism:

When in another's home, show them respect or else do not go there. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal. Do not harm little children. Ramirez was apparently not this kind of Satanist. Lest this appear an apology of LaVey, I mention also When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him. which tends to show that LaVeyans can be dangerous killers once they judge themselves to have been "bothered."2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:FD66:73F2:8691:FB57 (talk) 09:35, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Anton and his group were more like cosplay or Shades of Grey than satan-worshippers. They just thought it was cool to have scantily-clad girls on the alter and all that stuff. Mr Lavey was sort of a fraud, if you really wanted to worship the devil. 2603:3023:752:E000:45F6:E34B:D0F3:86BF (talk) 02:13, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

You left out something

My mom's cousin was the woman who almost got carjacked by Richard Ramirez and her husband came outside and began chasing him THEN, the neighbors came out and also began chasing and beating him until police arrived Artlover700 (talk) 21:21, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

LA Magazine article

There's a new article from LA Magazine, dated May 15, 2017, about James Romero's role, if anyone wants to flesh that part out a bit more: http://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/13-year-old-boy-brought-down-notorious-serial-killer-richard-ramirez-night-stalker/ Specifically, the sequence of events is slightly different than what we have here. Ramirez went to the Romeros' home first, but left without breaking in (James was awake and woke up his parents), then he drove to the home of Cairns and Erickson. —howcheng {chat} 23:14, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

"love object"

That is a terrible section title. I would suggest it be changed to nearly anything else, maybe "romantic relationship" or something less lurid. 104.254.230.90 (talk) 01:36, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Please make the above suggested change to section title. Thanks. 104.254.230.90 (talk) 21:27, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Already done - FlightTime (open channel) 21:45, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Inflation

At the end of the Trial and conviction it mentions his trial cost. To show inflation adjusted amount, just copy and paste this after the $1.8 million price:

(${{Format price|{{Inflation|US|1800000|1989}}}} in {{Inflation-year|US}} dollars)

It will output this: ($4.42 million in 2023 dollars). 50.64.119.38 (talk) 04:46, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Done  — Ammarpad (talk) 20:20, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 1 November 2018

The statement that Lioy and Ramirez were separated in the Romantic relationship section needs a citation 74.12.43.133 (talk) 21:57, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

 Done --DannyS712 (talk) 02:52, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 June 2019

File:Richard Ramirez.jpg

Richard Ramirez-The Night Stalker Police Mugshot 1984

I'd like to replace the current Profile Pic with this one. Stammberger13 (talk) 18:13, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: A color version of this image is already on the article, and it has properly completed copyright information. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 19:18, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

PCL-R Rating

The citation to the PCL-R rating doesn't seem to be credible. It seems to be just one person's opinion. There isn't even an about page on the blog. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sherlockiain (talk • contribs) 23:02, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Done - content failed WP:RS so it has been removed. Thadeuss (talk) 03:03, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Psychopathy/sociopathy

The article mentions that he may have leaned towards sociopathy instead of psychopathy, but there is no medical distinction between the two and the claim is unsourced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.91.161.112 (talk) 12:08, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Done - unsourced and possibly OR diagnosis has been removed. Thadeuss (talk) 03:03, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Child abductions/rapes

The new documentary on Netflix ("Night Stalker, Hunt for a serial killer") shows that he committed several child abductions and raped children on several occassions. Shouldn't this be mentioned? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.228.71.154 (talk) 10:30, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

+1, should be included. Googling "Anastasia Hronas" gives a bunch of results. She was 6 when she was abducted and sexually abused by Ramirez; he let her go and she helped to track him down. He also abducted a number of other children. — Bob • (talk) • 05:15, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Pop culture addition?

Original Marilyn Manson band member Jeordie White adopted the persona Twiggy Ramirez based on the pattern of "fashion model first name" followed by "serial killer last name": https://apnews.com/article/18f8a75f87c7d66f1f0204c2d7e409a4 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.244.226.238 (talk) 18:39, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Apprehension

He was apprehended on 31st August 1985 not 24th. Clairebear83 (talk) 16:42, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. Do you have a source for this claim? If so please share it. This can be updated in the article. Rasnaboy (talk) 16:55, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Unable to grep paragraph

On the night of July 2, 1985, he drove a stolen car to Arcadia, and randomly selected the house of Mary Louise Cannon, age 75, widowed grandmother's.[36]

Huh? Needs editing! - {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 09:36, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Netflix doc

I think the paragraph about the 2021 Netflix doc is overly long, and contains irrelevant details such as the "Rotten Tomatoes" rating. It seems inappropriate and possibly not objective. Matuko (talk) 03:31, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Disneyland link

It seems likely Ramirez was referring to the I'm going to Disney World! commercials. If that is made explicit in any of the sources, the interlink should reflect as much. Thmazing (talk) 17:58, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Doubtful pedophilia claims

In the first paragraph, Richard Ramirez is claimed to be a pedophile. Pedophilia is a disorder in which affected persons show a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to children. The selection of his victims seems rather indifferent to their age and therefore contradicts such an statement. The reference associated with the first paragraph does not support this claim either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:F6:6715:9E00:2583:A58A:768C:8872 (talk • contribs)

Agreed. He does not meet the definition of a pedophile. There seems to be no evidence that he had a preference for children. He did however sexually and physically abuse and murder a child on at least one occasion. I will therefore replace "pedophile" by "child abuser" which subsumes these crimes. Rappatoni (talk) 11:43, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Romantic relationship

Not engaged to Christine Lee at time of death. She was 23 years old in the early 1990s.

References

Semi-protected edit request on 29 June 2021

Change “despite Ramirez confessing to both murders long after his convictions while in prison.” It needs to be deleted as this has never been confirmed that he admitted to these or any crimes whilst in prison. 86.18.138.122 (talk) 21:30, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

 Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:53, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Never confessed to Higgins or the Leung case

Why is it now stating that he confessed to these crimes whilst in prison? He never confessed to either. TMirners (talk) 21:34, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 June 2021 (2)

Delete “ despite Ramirez confessing to both murders long after his convictions while in prison.” There're no reliable sources for this as it did not happen TMirners (talk) 21:37, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

 Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:53, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

My apologies for this error. Multiple less reliable sources claimed this to be the case, and since at the time to me it lined up with how Ramirez became slightly more forthcoming about his crimes in the years following his convictions, I initially believed then to have been true. There is a lot of misinformation surrounding extraordinary and disturbing cases like this which can sometimes make it difficult to distinguish facts from rumors, and I sincerely apologize for having made editing mistakes based on this misinformation. I hope my genuine attempts at further improving the article since have shown I have no ill intent here, and that at least some of my edits have been helpful and informative. Thank you both for correcting me and helping me improve as an editor, and cite more direct sources, and previously cited sources. Titanoboa Constrictor (talk) 07:30, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Crimes

This mf really do be a serial killer, serial rapist, kidnapper, child abuser, burglar. He really do be doing all the crimes.

Yup. Even if some other killers like Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, Rodney Alcala had higher body counts, Ramirez is still among the worst of the worst. Aside from the obvious severe brutally of his crimes, I always was particularly disturbed by how we still don’t know exactly just how many people Ramirez killed, how it’s likely higher than the generally accepted consensus of 15 murders confirmed as being his doing, and the fact that unlike most serial killers, Ramirez didn’t have any real victim profile, aside from being someone in a random house he broke into explicitly to burglarize, rape, and kill, or him seeing you on the streets and having felt like killing you. Titanoboa Constrictor (talk) 21:04, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Did he stop anyone on freeway and shoot them?

Says "The rest of Ramirez’s known homicides usually involved him breaking into a home to kill, or shooting someone who was in a car on the freeway after stopping them, while Leung was lured to the basement to be killed." To me this makes it sound like he caused someone to pull to the side of the freeway (the "shoulder" of the freeway) and killed them. But I don't think this happened. He may have followed someone who he saw on the freeway and killed them on surface streets. Believe this needs to be more clearly phrased. Greg Dahlen (talk) 11:05, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

I went ahead and rewrote it. Greg Dahlen (talk) 11:47, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for this, it was an oversight of mine. He did so in just one confirmed case. I did that initially incase it eventually came out that he was responsible for any unsolved freeway shootings in SoCal or anywhere he was southwest between 1984 and 1985 or anything like that, since his first murder, that of Mei Leung in April 1984, wasn’t conclusively linked to Richard Ramirez until 2009. So it’s not unprecedented and IMHO even unlikely he could be responsible for other cold cases, especially since determining the true number of murders committed by prolific serial killers is far more difficult than you’d think, and proving it is even more difficult as far as I’m aware. I’m far from an expert by any means, but worth mentioning at least as a significant possibility I feel. Titanoboa Constrictor (talk) 13:37, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Mental health of Richard Ramirez

He did not suffer from a mental illness. In your article you mention he had schizophrenia. There is no evidence of that and you did not back up that claim with any references that claim this. Anna7711 (talk) 01:10, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

I don't see any mention of schizophrenia, only schizoid personality disorder. It's a related personality disorder, but distinct. Source is a book on personality disorders by Dr. Michael J. Stone, who studied the case, and the diagnosis is attributed to him. Thadeuss (talk) 21:23, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Question

We acknowledge him as a child molester, but some of his crimes in that area are left out of the article. Why is that? 140.186.106.98 (talk) 21:33, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

I thought the crimes he committed of that nature were delved into well enough. He raped an adolescent child twice, one of whom was his first murder victim, and in the 1970’s when he was in High School prior to him getting fired from the Holiday Inn he worked at for a foiled attempted rape where Ramirez was badly beaten by the victim’s husband, he fondled and molested two elementary school aged children in an elevator, but was never reported. I believe it was a boy and a girl. No idea if they were siblings or had any relation to each other though. It’s talked about in several reputed documentaries and news articles by Richard Ramirez’s former long term childhood friends who were interviewed. Titanoboa Constrictor (talk) 18:26, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Lack of citations

This article does not have many citations in the initial paragraphs (above first heading.) It is a large chunk of text and I believe that adding citations to sources that provide evidence for both his military skills and cocaine use would be beneficial.

Mittens For Short (talk) 21:43, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

While it may take some time due to having to go very far back in news and police archives to find them in most cases, I think these can be dug up and cited eventually.

I know for a fact there is countless news articles, documentaries, and police documents that have since been made public after Ramirez has long since been incarcerated that document this, from people who knew Richard Ramirez personally both before and during his crime spree and murders.

While I could be wrong, while he was cagey, cryptic, and often deliberately misleading about his murders, while incarcerated, Ramirez did often speak at length to detectives and anybody who wrote him letters about his cocaine use and addiction, and his fondness of using the drug and experiencing it's effects. I believe he also often spoke about his prior cocaine addiction and fondness of the drug with other inmates he was serving his sentence on death row with, who were willing to talk to him when he spoke to them. Again, I could possibly be wrong, but I distinctly and vividly remember hearing about this from multiple reliable sources, including occasionally Ramirez himself in interviews and other people's correspondences with him before his death from cancer in 2013.

As for his military skills, a lot of this is difficult to document because of not only how long ago he learned these things from his equally disturbed and deranged fellow serial killer and serial rapist cousin Miguel "Mike" Ramirez, who served as a green beret in the Vietnam war and committed numerous gruesom war crimes Titanoboa Constrictor (talk) 09:28, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Gruesome war crimes* My apologies on the grammatical error and abrupt ending of my last talk page entry. Editing on mobile is garbage, and my thumb slipped and I accidentally hit the publish button way before I intended to, and I don't know how to edit talk page entries on mobile. I apologize for any confusion and inconveniences as a result.

Anyways, continuing from where I left off, these things are unfortunately difficult to document and definitively verify, even if I and others are certain they happened, not only because Ramirez learned these things as an adolescent well over 40 years ago from his elder cousin by 12 years Mike, who was a green beret and Vietnam war veteran, on top of also being a serial killer, serial rapist, and a reputed war criminal, but because the interviews with detectives and the press on these issues were also over 20-30 years ago by now, and most of it buried deep in archives, and others possibly lost to time entirely.

To be perfectly clear, I do think these things on his cocaine usage and military skills he learned from his deranged and deeply disturbed war criminal and Vietnam vet older cousin Mike can still be cited, verified, and documented, but it will just be more challenging and take longer because of the above mentioned documentation and archival issues. Thank you for your time and your interest in improving this important historical article. Titanoboa Constrictor (talk) 09:37, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Trial & conviction superlative

• What I think should be changed:

"The trial cost $1.8 million ($3.93 million in 2021 dollars), which at the time made it the most expensive in the history of California..."

Maybe "most expensive MURDER trial" ?

• Why it should be changed:

The current wording is incorrect/misleading, the McMartin preschool trial ended years earlier in the same county & state and cost $15 million, over 8x as much.

• References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial#Legacy

DemonicLlama (talk) 19:31, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

References

 Done —Sirdog (talk) 09:02, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

The night stalker

To add in the popular culture, if that’s what you call it, criminal minds episode called our darkest hour 5x23 2600:1702:228A:4240:1DE2:3634:5463:5FBA (talk) 03:59, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 November 2022

190.19.18.80 (talk) 01:53, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Wrong surname spelling in the “Early life” section. Ricardo "Richard" Levya Muñoz Ramirez[4] was born in El Paso, Texas, on February 29, 1960 “Leyva” is mistyped.

 Done Jiltedsquirrel (talk) 01:49, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 December 2022 for Mental Health Section

Please add a psychological assessment was also done on Richard Ramirez for conduct disorder to the Mental Health page. Ramirez would cause commotion in society that was not normal. Ramirez was then evaluated by the American Psychiatric Association for Conduct Disorder. Within the 15 questions that Richard Ramirez was evaluated against, Ramirez matched 10 of the questions. It is argued that Richard Ramirez suffered from Conduct Disorder due to all the abuse he dealt with while growing up.UKEssays. (November 2018). Psychological Assessment of Richard Ramirez. Retrieved from https://www.ukessays.com/essays/criminology/psychological-assessment-richard-6923.php?vref=1 Laura1459 (talk) 16:53, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Per the source: Disclaimer: This is an example of a student written essay. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:21, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 May 2023

Richard Ramirez birthday is on February 29, 1960, not the 28th

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Richard-Ramirez 2604:2D80:B20A:3C00:94EB:1CFB:9C91:A466 (talk) 22:46, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

 Done See also [5] and [6] --Pinchme123 (talk) 03:10, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 September 2023

Addition to the “In Popular Culture” section:

Richard Ramirez is mentioned in the song “God Bless” by artist Combichrist on their 2005 album “Everybody Hates You”. 50.88.198.93 (talk) 18:40, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. M.Bitton (talk) 21:43, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Additional pop culture reference

The song city of angels from the testament album titans of creation is also about Ramirez.

https://genius.com/Testament-city-of-angels-lyrics

https://heavymusichq.com/testament-titans-of-creation-review/ Dvanbalen (talk) 13:41, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Miguel Valles/Josefina Bretado information

I think the article may possibly give an incorrect date for the event in which Ramirez witnessed his older cousin Mike Valles murder his second wife. I discovered that her real name was Josefina Valles (née Bretado), and I think "Jesse" was a pet name she went by. I found a memorial dedicated to her online which specifies she was murdered when she suffered a gunshot wound. The date given for the crime and her death is May 4 1975, when Josefina was 26 years old. The newspaper clippings and the details on who she was, and the nature of her passing is far too close to be a coincidence.

If this is accurate, it would also mean that this event occurred when Ramirez was 15, and that Mike spent 2 years in a Texas state mental hospital before being released in 1977. I think I'll update the article accordingly with that particular information after posting this subject, but am leaving it here so other editors know what's going on.

Also worth noting is another memorial I found which proves that Miguel and Josefina had a son named Miguel Valles Jr (September 21, 1967 - April 22, 1973), who passed away at the age of 5 on April 22nd, 1973. The nature of Miguel Valles Jr's passing, and the cause of his death are something I have not been able to find any information on. Edit: The only thing I could find is that allegedly, Miguel Valles Jr died in an accidental gas explosion.

There's a lot of directly relevant information that I believe should probably be included in this article related to Mike Valles, and the events surrounding him, and his relation to Ramirez.

Miguel Angel Valles Sr died at the age of 45 on April 8th, 1995, and was buried with full military honors in El Paso despite being a serial killer and a serial rapist in Vietnam during his time serving in the war. He also had multiple surviving sons and daughters named in the newspaper announcement of his death and a third wife named Suzane, though the stated age at the time of his death announcement in the newspaper seems to be slightly incorrect. There is also a photo of him in the obituary which could be worth including in the section of the article where Mike Valles is important in the twisted story of his younger cousin. The cause of Mike's death in the Spring of 1995, and the nature of it are unclear to me at the time of writing this. I also do not know the name or identity of his first wife before Josefina Bretado, or how long they were married.

Edit: Allegedly Miguel Valles Sr died from a heart attack, contributing factors being his substance abuse, high blood pressure, and high cholesterol. I need to find more reliable sources verifying this claim.

Titanoboa Constrictor (talk) 06:25, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Scar between Richard's eyes

Richard walks into a bar down the road from Alameda NAS, doesn't order any drinks and proceeds to harass every patron. Being the last patron to be harassed, his evil intent was clear when he asked me to step outside. I refused, which prompted him to reach behind him (Likely for the .22 cal he carried with him). I assumed he was not reaching for his wallet to pay my tab so I struck him with the bottle in my hand. Right between the eyes and then we wrestled on the floor before we stood up in front of the bar mirror with his tentacles firmly in my grasp. Blood streaming down his face, the bartender informed us the police were on the way. I split immediately and years later recognized that man as Richard Ramirez. 2601:483:5500:BC0:84C3:1C5A:DFEB:B123 (talk) 16:18, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

"Life Without Hope" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Life Without Hope has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 November 11 § Life Without Hope until a consensus is reached. PARAKANYAA (talk) 11:33, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 December 2024

Hi would someone be willing to edit in some new information about Ramirez regarding the following:

1. An edit to his name. Leyva is not his middle name and comes from a simple error in a 1985 newspaper. It is not on his birth certificate, death certificate or any of his court or prison records. Source: federal habeas corpus petition 2008, document 7.27, exhibit 55.

2. Regarding Miguel "Mike" Valles, he was not a Green Beret. He only served a year tour of duty and was honourably discharged in 1971 with schizophrenia. Citation: Document 20.7 of Richard Ramirez's 2008 federal habeas corpus petition, exhibit 111.

3. Suggestions for psychiatric information to possibly replace the assessment by Michael Stone who was not his official psychiatrist: a) In 1985, Dr William Vicary found that Ramirez was psychotic and met the criteria for mental incompetency. He found him to be "irrational and self-destructive." Source: Document 7.21 of Richard Ramirez's 2008 federal habeas corpus petition, exhibit 41.

b) In 1986, Dr Dietrich Blumer, an expert in epilepsy found that Ramirez suffered from a "thought disorder of psychotic proportions" stemming from temporal lobe disorder. Blumer stated that his "chief delusion consists of the conviction of having an intimate relationship with Satan." Blumer believed Ramirez's psychosis was treatable with lifelong care and antipsychotics. Source: Document 7.18 of Richard Ramirez's 2008 federal habeas corpus petition, exhibit 31.

c) In May 1987, Dr Victor Henderson examined Ramirez and declared that "my neurological findings indicate that Mr Ramirez has suffered brain damage." Source: Letter from Dr Henderson, Document 20.3 of Richard Ramirez's 2008 federal habeas corpus petition, exhibit 96.

Six further psychiatric reports and IQ/cognitive test results can be found in Document 16.7, exhibit 72, Document 20.3, Exhibits 98, 99 and 100. They can be downloaded from this site. https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/hzs23c78/california-central-district-court/richard-ramirez-v-robert-l-ayers/

There, you will also find the original ballistics and shoe forensics reports under documents 7.23, ex. 47 (Zazzara attack), 7.19, 7.20 and 16.7 for the shoes and ballistics for Yu, Okazaki and Kneiding.

4. Under the section where it mentions Ramirez's attacks on people in a hotel, Philip Carlo does not cite his sources. None of these incidents appear in Ramirez's youth police record and were never mentioned when he was admitted to the Texas Youth Council in 1977. You can find the list of his teenage crimes in document 16.5, Exhibit 60. I believe it is an invention to bridge the gap between the shy boy and the murderer he later became. RenataCaffarelli ([[User talk:RenataCaffarelliRenataCaffarelli (talk) 23:35, 5 December 2024 (UTC)|talk]]) 10:34, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 December 2024

Richard Ramirez's cousin , Miguel Angel "Mike" Valles (June 14, 1949 – April 8, 1995), did enter the US Army and served. He did not earn the Green Beret, nor was he highly decorated, as stated in the article. He was discharged as a Private First Class with 100% disability. 65.191.3.134 (talk) 03:00, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done I cannot find any evidence that he was a Green Beret so removed as unsourced. LizardJr8 (talk) 19:21, 19 December 2024 (UTC)