Talk:Moral panic

Concern about "Editing" of this "talk" page.

This page contained many issues. They were all deleted. This is very weird. Is somebody trying to rewrite the history? Please recover the old page with all of the discussions. A.H192.114.3.241 (talk) 10:58, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

A discussion with no recent edits was archived by ClueBot III. The discussion is now archived at Talk:Moral_panic/Archive_3#Suggestion_to_add_section:_"Reaction_to_Covid_19_restrictions". — GhostInTheMachine ^{talk to me} 18:12, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

I object. This archiving is rewriting the history, by hiding important discussions that were made in this page. Even if there is access to archives almost no one sees them. Most read the Moral panic page itself, few read the "Talk" page, and almost no one reads archives. A. 192.114.3.241 (talk) 06:52, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

You seem to be trying to induce a moral panic over talk page archival. 2600:8802:5913:1700:9437:A29C:2134:C0C0 (talk) 09:25, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Here is the discussion that was archived for further discussion on the issue:

Extensive quote from archive collapsed. --Aquillion (talk) 05:01, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Title: Reaction to Covid 19 restrictions (2020–present) Fear of Covid-19 pandemic that was followed by governmental policy was postulated to result in global economic recession. According to the World Health Organization (WHO), Infection Fatality Rate for Covid-19 is around 0.5-1%, describing the true severity of a disease. Accordingly, fear of losses, and potential burden on health system have lead governments around the world to impose policies (e.g., lockdowns, tests for Covid-19) that are likely to cause worldwide economic recession.--192.114.3.241 (talk) 05:45, 11 August 2021 (UTC) Explanation: According to definition of moral panic it does not have to be irrational. Accordingly, HIV, Islamic terror, Human traffic, sex offenders are described in this Wikipage. Thus, reaction of Covid-19 can be also a Moral panic. It would be great to read your thoughts about it. A. --192.114.3.241 (talk) 13:44, 11 August 2021 (UTC) Hrm. I was gonna say I don't see sources making the connection, but there are some sources that do discuss how the theory of moral panic can be applied to studying reactions to infectuous diseases - eg. Toilet Paper Thrones and Heated Tweets: Applying Moral Panic and Social Network Theory to Responses Over Panic Buying during COVID-19 is one connecting it to panic buying specifically, and here is one talking about how it relates to panic over COVID in the Philippines. But I'd be cautious - these sources are more talking about how Cohen's framework can be repurposed to analyze other types of panic than saying that it is (or created) a moral panic, so it wouldn't make sense to put it in the list of moral panics directly. --Aquillion (talk) 01:29, 16 August 2021 (UTC) Looks like there is some interesting similarity with "Cohen's stages of moral panic": 1. Perceived and defined as a threat to societal safety. 2. Amplified by the mass media. 3. Social anxiety(? not sure about this term but anxiety for sure). 4. Politicians respond to the threat. --192.114.3.241 (talk) 10:18, 16 August 2021 (UTC) At this point, I would say that such an addition would be an NPOV violation. There is little or no evidence from reliable sources that matches the responses of health agencies and governments to a moral panic definition. If anything, there is a sort of inverted moral panic, where legitimate responses are opposed and deprecated on ideological or propagandistic grounds. --Orange Mike | Talk 16:10, 16 August 2021 (UTC) Very interesting. It is not my field but googling it up I can see some publications supporting this claim (1, 2, 3, 4). If some of these were peer reviewed than they should be Neutral. Meaning, it is probably not a Neutral point of view (NPOV) violation. --192.114.3.241 (talk) 10:27, 25 August 2021 (UTC) Also, considering the fact that the great majority of Covid cases (confirmed by PCR) are simply healthy as they have no symptoms, it does seem like panic. Panic which is highly promoted by the media. This results in governmental regulations that violate freedom. Again, without being an expert in the field, reading the wikipage about moral panic, the Covid seems like moral panic to me. --192.114.3.241 (talk) 12:20, 22 September 2021 (UTC) More researchers supporting the idea that reaction to Covid may have been a moral panic [see 1234] or an anxiety epidemic 5. The first is an opinion written by by John Scott, an honorable Professor of Sociology (Fellow of the British Academy, a Fellow of the Academy of the Social Sciences, and a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts.). I dare say that article of such an "heavy weight" Sociologist is a case against the NPOV violation claim --192.114.3.241 (talk) 12:37, 22 September 2021 (UTC) According to the definition, a moral panic demonizes an "other". What is the "other" being demonized in the case of Covid-19? Just because someone uses the words "moral panic" doesn't mean that it counts as a moral panic for the purpose of this article. This article is on a scholarly topic with a rigid definition. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad (talk) 14:51, 25 September 2021 (UTC) Demonization is already here across the board. The "other" have been: children demonized for being the vector for transmission of Covid, Medical Doctors and scientist that dont agree with governmental regulations, those who did not take only the booster shot, people that don't put on facemask, those who don't take any of covid vaccinations; all of these groups have been terribly demonized by being accused to cause direct or/and indirect death to others. This was done by the the media, and democratic governments reacted by new laws and regulations. Again, I am not expert in the field, but seems very similar to stages of moral panic. Here are some examples: stop-demonizing-students-for-covid, hear-scientists-different-views-dont-attack-them, open-plea-for-dignity-and-respect-in-science, Don’t demonize parents who are hesitant to vaccinate, why-demonizing-the-unvaccinated-wont-work, unvaccinated-different-from-antivax, Stop demonizing one anothe, new-wave-of-covid-19-is-not-the-fault-of-the-unvac, medias-all-out-blitz-to-demonize-the-unvaccinated, millions-unvaccinated-risk-losing-civil-liberties, children_acused_fo_transmission_of_COVID. Speaking of scholary rigid wiki-article- see article of expert in the field- Professor Scott (Fellow of the Royal Society of Art) Risk and Moral Panic: A Sociological View of Covid-19. --192.114.3.241 (talk) 16:17, 30 September 2021 (UTC) I think this example would be clearer if reframed as "reaction to Covid 19 restrictions". Recommendations from medical authorities changed rapidly during 2020 (e.g., usefulness of masks, which types were best, whether fake N-95 were proliferating), which might seem like panic but it was often simply urgent adaptation. IMO, the real *moral* panic is condemnation and censorship of dissenting voices, justified in moral terms as banning "dangerous" misinformation rather than supporting free speech and open scientific inquiry. The role of the media fits the classic definitions of moral panic given in this article. In particular, authoritative pronouncements have closely mimicked many of the exaggerations seen in the early years of the AIDS crisis. If the latter qualifies as moral panic, then it seems logical to include an aspect of Covid 19, which has more widespread political and economic implications than HIV did. Martindo (talk) 21:43, 10 November 2021 (UTC) Following your insightful suggestion: changed the Title of the suggested section into "Reaction to Covid 19 restrictions (2019–present)". Suggesting to write this revised content instead of the content suggested on top: Condemnation and censorship of dissenting voices during Covid 19 pandemic, justified in moral terms as banning "dangerous" misinformation rather than supporting free speech and open scientific inquiry. See examples: stop-demonizing-students-for-covid, hear-scientists-different-views-dont-attack-them, open-plea-for-dignity-and-respect-in-science, Don’t demonize parents who are hesitant to vaccinate, unvaccinated-different-from-antivax, Stop demonizing one another, new-wave-of-covid-19-is-not-the-fault-of-the-unvac, medias-all-out-blitz-to-demonize-the-unvaccinated, millions-unvaccinated-risk-losing-civil-liberties.--192.114.3.241 (talk) 09:57, 14 November 2021 (UTC) I reverted an addition related to this today. The sources I spot checked did not mention moral panic at all. I believe an addition of this type would need better sourcing to not be WP:OR. –Novem Linguae (talk) 11:22, 23 November 2021 (UTC) The citations should only illustrate that Condemnation and censorship of dissenting voices were part of reaction to COVID. Since they play a role in moral panic it is enough to illustrate we have elements of moral panic (as discussed above), and therefore there is no need for these citations to contain the wordings moral panic. However, it is possible to add also citations correlating reaction to COVID-19 to moral panic if you think it will strengthen the suggestion above. See for example: 123456. We can add them to the suggested paragraph. A. --192.114.3.241--192.114.3.241 (talk) 13:24, 5 December 2021 (UTC) I disagree. In my opinion, the relevant policy is WP:SYNTH. do not combine different parts of one source to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by the source. If one reliable source says A and another reliable source says B, do not join A and B together to imply a conclusion C not mentioned by either of the sources. This would be improper editorial synthesis of published material to imply a new conclusion, which is original research. Sources used need to mention moral panic. –Novem Linguae (talk) 00:31, 6 December 2021 (UTC) But it is the opposite of synthesis: 1) There is enough scientific literature to call some aspects of reaction to Covid a moral panic; as given by sources 1 to 6 cited above (see also 7th example: 7). 2) Since condemnation and censorship of dissenting voices were part of reaction to COVID (as explained above) it is enough to show that reaction to COVID had this characteristic of moral panic. Each one of these two is enough. They do not need each other to support the claim. Thus it is not a synthesis. Considering two independent evidences support the same claim, it only makes it stronger. A.--192.114.3.241 (talk) 08:03, 12 December 2021 (UTC) A public health crisis isn't a moral panic. There may be instances of people promoting moral panic type that align with the framework, but those reactions happen to any sufficiently divisive political decision. The sources presented are then the media themselves, and then of the next 6 are all over the shop, and 7 is specifically about panic in and of itself (which is probably a broader response to the pandemic than specific "moral" issues). Koncorde (talk) 10:08, 14 December 2021 (UTC) The health crisis argument is invalid because a public health crisis could be certainly associated with moral panic. For example, AIDS is associated with Moral panic in current Wikipage. It appears because the reaction to this crises has some characteristics of moral panic. Similarly the reaction to COVID19 has characteristics of moral panic. A. --192.114.3.241 (talk) 15:17, 5 January 2022 (UTC) The argument that such reactions are found in any sufficiently divisive political decision is invalid, because it excludes other politically-divisive cases which are considered as moral panic in this wikipage, see for example Terrorism and islamic extremism and Gender and transgender panics. Thus, the only way wiki editors can agree that reactions to certain events (e.g., health crises) are considered a moral panic is by scientific literature supporting this claim. As previously mentioned in 123456 see also Meida framing moral panic and Covid. Since real case of moral panic is supported by the media and policy makers, it is very hard to recognize it for those which are involved. Some may argue in the future, that the difficulty to add "reaction to Covid as moral panic" to this wikipage was stemming from this argument. A. --192.114.3.241 (talk) 15:17, 5 January 2022 (UTC) Here is another scientific publication illustrating reaction to COVID was moral panic: "... public health guidelines was construed as a moral imperative and a civic duty, while those who failed to comply with these guidelines were stigmatized, shamed as "covidiots," and discursively constructed as a threat to public health and moral order". How long can it be ignored in Wikipedia? -- Let's vote on this suggestion. This way, everyone gets to the decide on which side of the history he/she wants to be :). Here is a revised suggestion: Title: Reaction to Covid 19 restrictions (2020–present) Content: Study of public health guidelines during COVID-19 pandemic in Canadian newspapers has illustrated that public health guidelines were construed as a moral imperative and a civic duty, while those who failed to comply with these guidelines were stigmatized, shamed as "covidiots," and discursively constructed as a threat to public health and moral order. A. --192.114.3.241 (talk) 09:06, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.114.3.241 (talk)

Please don't pull months-old massive walls of text from the archive and quote them here; it makes the page unwieldy and unreadable. Archiving is automatic and normal. If you want to start an WP:RFC on some question you feel is unresolved (including things that were discussed before), you can follow the instructions on WP:RFC, and even directly link to archived discussions if you think they're relevant. But discussions do end eventually, and that one was largely from last year; pulling them out in their entirety just to keep discussion going until you get a specific outcome goes against WP:BLUDGEON and WP:DEADHORSE. --Aquillion (talk) 05:01, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

For what it's worth, so people don't have to exposed themselves to the collapsed text wall, this was all about COVID and whether it counted as a moral panic.

Of course some aspects of (particularly the American) reaction did, but most of the 'discussion' was just ranting and no one is missing much that they haven't already heard from one side or the other of their family. — LlywelynII 11:00, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Criticism section is incredibly verbose.

"Paul Joosse has argued that while classic moral panic theory styled itself as being part of the "sceptical revolution" that sought to critique structural functionalism, it is actually very similar to Émile Durkheim's depiction of how the collective conscience is strengthened through its reactions to deviance (in Cohen's case, for example, "right-thinkers" use folk devils to strengthen societal orthodoxies). In his analysis of Donald Trump's victory in the 2016 United States presidential election, Joosse reimagined moral panic in Weberian terms, showing how charismatic moral entrepreneurs can at once deride folk devils in the traditional sense while avoiding the conservative moral recapitulation that classic moral panic theory predicts.[117] Another criticism is that of disproportionality: there is no way to measure what a proportionate reaction should be to a specific action.[118]"

I realize that academic language isn't entirely avoidable, but keep in mind that this is an encyclopedia, not a journal, and the average reader is not going to come away with an understanding of what is being discussed here. 2603:7081:1603:A300:8A62:52AD:A542:142B (talk) 17:02, 15 December 2024 (UTC)