User talk:Meier
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From your first edit, I assume that you're not actually new here — but at least this turns the link to your Talk page purple... Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 11:39, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Wilno/Vilnius
[edit]Hi there! I know that the current name of the Lithuanian capital is Vilnius and that that name is currently used in English as well. I have no problem with that. However, some anonymous user (was it you?) changed the name of the town in many articles, when it was clearly referring to the Polish city of Wilno, not the current Lithuanian city. It was a typical anachronysm in most cases and would be similar to using the name "Istanbul" for the capital of Byzantine Empire in 7th century.
In Wikipedia, there is a common convention to use the contemporary names in historical articles and not always the current ones. That's why the city is called Wilno from time to time (just like it's referred to as Vilna during the Partitions of Poland) and Vilnius after 1945. Similarily, the Polish city of Gdańsk is called Danzig in several periods of its history.
By such convention we simply avoid endless wars about "what should the city be called" and "what is the real and only name for a city". --Halibutt 23:01, Mar 28, 2005 (UTC)
- Hi, Halibutt!
- I get your point. You're trying to say that Vilnius for the period of 1920-1939 should be called Wilno. In the official language it was called Wilno indeed. There's absolutely no problem with it. The difference between Constatinople->Istanbul and Wilno->Vilnius is that in the first case these are different names but Wilno and Vilnius are the same. Until XVII century even Lithuanians used to call city "Vilnia", but then they took Polish name "Wilno" and added ending -ius. Automatically, W became V.
- The problem is that Wilno is name for Vilnius in Polish, but Vilnius is used in both Lithuanian and English. Former English name for Vilnius was Vilnia, so naturally it wouldn't be a mistake to call Vilnius Vilnia for the period until 1945 but I see it a bit confusing and I think common name should be used. As you see, there would not be any problem to call the city Wilno if we talk about original name of city for that period but even at that time English people used to call it Vilnia, not Wilno. So that means that name Wilno for Vilnius is incorrect, there should either Vilnia or Vilnius be written. Wilno in English should stay only at these cases when you quote something in Polish, then there's no problem.
- "Wilno naszo" is sometimes heard in Vilnius region when Polish people say that Vilnius is a Polish city and should be a part of Poland.
- I had some thoughts when I saw people renaming English city name to Polish... But I don't know whether it was leaded by a mistake or by ambitions. I hope this was second case :) Meier
- As to the English names for that city - indeed, the currently more popular is Vilnius. However, the one used until recently was not Vilnia but Vilna. So you're wrong on that one. And finally, Wilno was also used in English language, and especially so in the twenties and thirties. That's precisely why I prefer Wilno over Vilna over Vilnius for that period.
- As to your "Wilno naszo" - I seriously doubt it, that expression is not in Polish language. It could be "nasze Wilno" (meaning our Wilno, with a strong sense of emotional link, like in "my dear hometown) or some other, more elaborate expression. However, the way you put it down it makes no sense. At least not in Polish.
- Finally, there is a famous Talk:Danzig rule that promotes usage of contemporary local names rather than the contemporary or modern English names to underline the history of the cities. That's why I decided to use the Polish-English variant (as opposed to Lithuanian-English and Russian/Ruthenian-English) when speaking of Poles who lived in a Polish city called Wilno. It's not a huge problem for me if you change that, but Wiki should be consistent and all similar cases should be treated accordingly. Moreover, it would sound bizarre, just like saying that Julius Caesar fought against the French Army. Halibutt 23:28, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)
- PS. If you want people to follow the discussion on the talk pages, try to reply to their talk pages rather than replying in yours. That way they will receive an instant notification of the fact as soon as they come back to wikipedia. Otherwise, people like me would have to constantly watch hundreds of user's talk pages... Halibutt 23:30, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)
- Sorry, my friend, but this is a complete absurd. Why should we promote anachronisms? The very same system (different name for different parts of history) was adopted with Gdańsk/Danzig and, although not the best outcome, it's still much better than calling a German town with a Polish city and vice versa. If we followed what "sensitive Lithuanians" propose (and who is not sensitive about names of the places in his country?), we'd have to call the capital of Byzantium Istanbul.
- Also, how can I say that certain people were born in Vilnius when they most probably never heared the name, never used it, nor was anyone in or just outside of the city using it, foreigners included. If we were to agree not to use the Polish/English name at all, I'd go for the following solution: Middle Ages to 1991 Vilna, 1991-now Vilnius. Halibutt 07:38, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)
Lithuanian language query
[edit]Greetings, Meier! I recently posted a Lithuanian language query on the Language Reference Desk (April 11, 5.4), and there it languishes, awaiting an answer. Might I solicit yours? I searched through the Babel boxes for users who've identified themselves as native speakers, and your name was the most promising :-) If you'd be so kind to reply there or on my User talk page, we'd be much obliged. -- Thanks, Deborahjay 16:49, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Added: Thanks so much for getting back to me! (The delay is certainly excused; I was more concerned that perhaps you were no longer an active Wikipedian!) Your translation is most helpful and quite sophisticated. The problem we'd had stemmed from what's turned out to be a discrepancy between the Lithuanian caption and the Yiddish. Such differing versions are a fairly common occurrence in the post-WWII commemorative texts I've been documenting, that include memorial monuments as well as museum exhibitions as in this case, and worthy of note and further study. I'd be pleased to consult with you again in the future. -- Deborahjay 01:05, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
License tagging for File:Vilnius Siemens Arena 20081124.JPG
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