Talk:Powergaming

Optimization (role-playing games) was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 1 January 2018 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Powergaming. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

This article was nominated for deletion on 2 March 2010. The result of the discussion was keep.

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I had no idea that powergaming meant this in MUDS! I wonder if there's any equivalent meaning in MUDS to "abusing the structure of the game to create a powerful character?"

That would "powergaming" or "powerleveling" in my experience (though most powergamers don't believe they're abusing the system). I changed the scope of the sentence to indicate that the different meaning is more common in socially-oriented muds. --Mrwojo 04:11, 18 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I'm an experienced mudder and in general, powergaming does NOT mean roleplay abuse. That's seen purely as godmoding or simply "bad rp." Every circle of every game I've ever played, powergaming has meant the attempt to make oneself as strong as possible.

That's because the named examples are from other genres, not MUDs in general (which one would have to admit are much more centred on player vs. player and mobkilling aspects than other forms of MU*). Powergaming has evolved to mean exactly this just as roleplayers evolved to MUSH and MUCK roleplay rather than confining themselves to MUDs. I've personally played on a variety of codebases/platforms (MUCK, MUD, MUSH, MUX, MOO etc.), and the duality of this term has remained consistent. As this is an encyclopedia article, wouldn't be surprising that it should include all commonly accepted definitions. (Caliah 18:58, 15 April 2006 (UTC))[reply]

Example

Would Oblivion come under this since it's relatively easy to go to any food shop, but everything. , make potions and sell the produce for insane profits. Also in Morrowind potions could be stacked and abused to allow someone to get stats 100*their natural maximum, and then complete the main quest in 4 minutes whilst travelling half the map in levitative form in seconds! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.208.17.135 (talk) 21:34, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This article reminds me of something I pulled while playing the fifth edition of the Swedish RPG "Drakar och Demoner" ("Chronopia"), where by playing as a Demomorph (who specializes in magics to transform them into demons) and by starting out as a "hero" class character (someone destined to great things), you start out with three demonic abilities.

Then, by spending 34 BP (Background Points, normally spent on getting good stats) on each roll on the ability table your starting abilities are limited to: Invulnerability (making you immune to all but magic), Magical Invulnerability (making you immune to all magic) and Destroyer (lets you turn anything non-magical, non-organic into dust at will).

Of course, sub-par stats are but a small price to pay for invulnerability.90.227.11.157 (talk) 09:22, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Page Organization

This page is clearly describing different meanings of the word "powergaming". However, right now, the information seems to be just thrown together randomly with no organization at all. What's especially confusing is that it seems that it keeps talking about one form of powergaming, then the other, then back to the first, and pretty soon, you have no idea what the article is talking about. Viltris 06:20, 20 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The problem here is that people keep adding meanings that they encounter in the scope of their own experience IMHO, without checking the previous sections of the article...(Caliah 18:58, 15 April 2006 (UTC))[reply]

I've reorganized the page a bit. I think it looks better now. Peter Vasiljev 04:49, 2 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Problem with concept

In freeform games (like the MU* example with poses), you at some point run up against the fact that _someone_ has to win. the punch either lands or it doesn't. When player B says he dodges, is that powergaming? --Random832^T 20:42, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In most roleplay MU*s there's an unwritten code of etiquette and common courtesy that seems to prevail in most quality rp games. If there is no combat system in place (rare in combat-intensive games) a player may either OOCly ask permission for a blow to land or decide that a blow does hit. Powergamers can easily be recognised as players who do neither. Always :P Otherwise, a combat system is fine for determining whether blows land. Powergamers also abuse combat systems if they don't disregard them entirely. Caliah (talk) 22:40, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Roleplaying styles

There's a few good books been written on gaming styles, "Robin's Laws of Good Gamesmastering" being a classic. Essentially, when people play RPGs (and related games) they can have different expectations about the experience and get their enjoyment in quite different ways. The incompatability between some of these play styles can lead to personal conflicts in games that require a certain level of social cohesion. Names get called, powergamer, munchkin, and so on. If only someone would write about it all on wikipedia. 8) Tussock 03:54, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorcerer/Paladin is powergaming?

This might be a minor point, but no self-respecting powergamer would dilute sorcerer levels with paladin unless they were playing a "legitimate" fighter/mage anyway. Sorcerers already have an inferior spell level progression, and two levels of paladin would put them a full spell level other sorcerers, let alone wizards, clerics, and druids. Charisma to saves is excellent but nowhere near advantage enough to counter this. Perhaps another example would be better. 128.205.228.63

It is, but building an encyclopedia takes all kinds. I expect the members of the D&D wikiproject to be either busy or run ragged right now, but poking them at an opportune moment would bring good results. Of course, if you with to provide a better example, that'd be even better.

As a side note, it turns out that repeatedly cracking the sheriff's safe in Quest for Glory 1, VGA version, will ultimately result in being caught and arrested over charges of "blatant power-gaming." --Kiz o r 15:40, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WP:SYNT

Power gaming in other fields doesn't necessarily have the same meaning, nor is there indication it was borrowed from RPGs, rather it means the gaming of power e.g. [1] [2] [3] [4]. Pcap ping 07:47, 3 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Also, even in video games, power gaming computer (PC or machine) means something else as well, but it's sometimes used a noun e.g. [5]. Pcap ping 08:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's the same meaning. In PCs, a power-gaming computer is one designed to maximise one goal (hardware performance) at the expense of other considerations (affordability, power efficiency). - DustFormsWords (talk) 22:43, 3 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't. "power gaming computer/machine/laptop/PC" is a contraction of "high-powered gaming computer computer/machine/laptop/PC". Pcap ping 23:50, 3 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Article is biased against power-gaming

Despite the fact that the article represents power-gaming solely from the viewpoint of non-power-gamers, power-gaming represents a legitimate philosophy of gaming (at least in its non-MUD sense of character optimization). The article should be rewritten to incorporate a GNS-paradigm analysis which also explores what it is that power gamers want and get out of gaming. --68.255.109.241 (talk) 20:57, 21 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

We need good, independent sourcing for both points of view, to represent them properly. 129.33.19.254 (talk) 21:05, 21 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This conversation led me to discover that the "See also" section of this article, which led (among many other places) to the article Optimization (role-playing games) that I believe has material on something more like the sort of approach to these issues that you're talking about, had been unexplainedly blanked by an IP some time ago. I've put it back. —chaos5023 (talk) 23:53, 21 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This article is biased, unsourced trash that is based largely on one poorly-referenced paper and conjecture

This entire article needs to be revised for bias and have [CITATION NEEDED] and [SAYS WHO?] stamped all over it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.188.102.40 (talk) 21:14, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it's rather poorly sourced and could use more perspectives. Maybe I can find something. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 05:08, 2 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV dispute1

The article presents powergaming mainly as questionable or immoral. This disregards its merits as being creative or clever use of game mechanics and high level planning in competitive gaming. Powergaming is a wider concept than the suggested neutral expression "optimization". User:2001:14ba:80f4:b900:fc42:b7b1:6eab:910b 15:15 04/03/2018 (moved from top of page by: IdreamofJeanie (talk) 15:21, 4 March 2018 (UTC))[reply]

Optimisation positive or neutral?

As far as I am concerned, the word 'optimisation' is positively connotated, not neutral. Would others agree? Munci (talk) 11:59, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's a matter of opinion. 208.47.202.254 (talk) 13:28, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]